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#416319 - 02/23/09 12:43 PM Use of trapping with pummeling skill?
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
Reading back, I notice that John said that he is able to use traps more often now that he has a wrestling base. I'm just wondering if you feel trad. traps become viable options once you have this base in place? Or if their purpose is totally eclipsed by pummeling skills?

Not trying to start a flame war. Just interested.


--Chris


Edited by Ames (02/23/09 12:45 PM)

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#416320 - 02/23/09 02:50 PM Re: Use of trapping with pummeling skill? [Re: Ames]
TeK9 Offline
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Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
I'm gonna post my thoughts on here hopefully I am right, but also with the chance that John will post and correct me as he is introducing me to a lot of new things.

For me I see trapping as a range more than a technique, so I can't or haven't yet been able to describe pummeling as something different than actual trapping. What I mean is, I know we have traditional single and double neck ties, single and double under and over arm hooks. But I also practice head, neck, chest, bicep, and wrist pummeling, which is all based on grips, control. Which to me is the same as trapping.

Now if I learn all this from pummeling then am I not also learning the traps? At least I seem to think so. I still haven't been able to come up with the distinction between the 2, either because they are the same thing, or because they go hand in hand.

Before I was only aware of MT clinch, and Wrestlers, double underhooks, now I'm seeing a whole lot of stuff from Greco, Free style, and folk style wrestling.

Which I describe as hardcore judo.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
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#416321 - 02/23/09 05:00 PM Re: Use of trapping with pummeling skill? [Re: TeK9]
JKogas Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
Ames wrote:
Quote:

Reading back, I notice that John said that he is able to use traps more often now that he has a wrestling base. I'm just wondering if you feel trad. traps become viable options once you have this base in place? Or if their purpose is totally eclipsed by pummeling skills?





I should be careful when I used the word "trap" in a JKD forum, lol.

But it is what it is and yes, there are some methods of trapping available in the clinch. This isn't Wing Chun, or compound trapping I hastily add. This comes because you're in close; you grab a limb and hit.

These traps usually come off of wrist control or the underhook. Thus I really don't refer to them as "traditional" trapping. But yeah, they are facilitated BY the wrestling base and pummeling game - if that answers the question.

I've gotten more out of trapping from Greco than I ever did from Jun Fan/Wing Chun. Lets put it that way.



Tek9 wrote:
Quote:

I'm gonna post my thoughts on here hopefully I am right, but also with the chance that John will post and correct me as he is introducing me to a lot of new things.





Hey Tek, you're welcome to post your thoughts and opinions on there regardless of what *I* think, so never let that stop you.


Quote:


For me I see trapping as a range more than a technique, so I can't or haven't yet been able to describe pummeling as something different than actual trapping. What I mean is, I know we have traditional single and double neck ties, single and double under and over arm hooks. But I also practice head, neck, chest, bicep, and wrist pummeling, which is all based on grips, control. Which to me is the same as trapping.





You're spot on. Pummeling can definitely lead to trapping. It comes about because of skill you develop in really close range (chest to chest usually). From what I've experienced, you need to be in closer than you normally would be in the Jun Fan or Wing Chun "trapping range" in order to trap effectively.

These "traps" are just momentary things that are facilitated by having superior position. This is typically determined by head position in the clinch and from there, it's what you're doing with hand-fighting, underhooking and to a degree, leg position.


Quote:


Now if I learn all this from pummeling then am I not also learning the traps? At least I seem to think so.





Sure, it's all the same. But again, the key IMO, is the distance where this all happens.

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#416322 - 02/24/09 12:22 PM Re: Use of trapping with pummeling skill? [Re: JKogas]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
Quote:

These traps usually come off of wrist control or the underhook. Thus I really don't refer to them as "traditional" trapping. But yeah, they are facilitated BY the wrestling base and pummeling game - if that answers the question.





It does, thank you. I ask because I've been reading into Pankration, and have been seeing a lot of traps that come from the wrestling base, and this includes using wrestling traps against weapons (daggers and swords). So I'm just interested to know how many are 're-discovering' this somewhat lost aspect of Western wrestling.

--Chris
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