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#416269 - 02/19/09 10:12 AM Mentally Determined But Physically Uncontrollable
Eduardo Offline

Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 20
Loc: Nadi, Fiji
Long story... happened in about five minutes, but I feel that the initial paragraphs are important... skip to the last few paragraphs if you think you need some sort of synopsis before going over the whole post.

During lunch earlier today with my parents and grandmother, one of my uncles who's the bum who lives in the house next door (and is a well-known nuisance in our town and has a history of beating his wife and kids (aside from the oldest one, whom he's afraid of) - whether he's drunk or not, and being beaten up by his kids who have now grown up) came inside the house complaining this afternoon. He told us what his problem was - it was about one of our relatives, and accused the people here in our house of spreading stories about said problematic relative (she's kind of a klepto and a constant but bad liar - things have been disappearing in the house since she was here, and she claims she didn't do it even though we tried to counsel her and confronted her with proof which showed otherwise because counseling didn't seem to work).

I don't like said uncle - in fact, I really hate him now, and today I began to understand a bit better why his children feel the way the do about him, and I'm not really good at being plastic, so as much as possible, I don't interact with him, and so I kept my mouth shut when he was yapping away, but he kept yelling and repeating his accusations loudly in almost every other sentence.

My mother and grandmother were the ones who calmy told him that we did no such thing, and that the rumour must have come from somone else - most likely said relative foolishly telling people that we accused her of taking something she claims she didn't take - which she did because in one instance, she panicked when she discoered that my mother was searching the room she was sharing with my grandmother. We found the missing item hidden on top of one of the cabinets (she's several inches taller than my grandmother), and they found one other MIA item in the house she stays in now, but she said she didn't put it there and that the other item which she claimed she didn't take was taken from her by her classmate - "it was returned" to her the day my mother and grandmother got it from her new residence.

Anyway, he continued to refuse to listen to their explanation, and kept yelling and asking us "<why are you spreading these stories to other people? Almost everybody knows now.>" as if he's implying that we don't know how to be discreet (they're the ones who yell like looneys in the middle of the night - waking us and the rest of the neighbours). My grandmother and mother continued to respond in flat tones, and he kept at it with his loud voice.

I couldn't take it anymore, so I yelled at him and told him no one here in our house spread any about her because I know that we didn't (I did that part wrong - should have stayed calm, but I sort of lost it because of what he was saying - maybe also coz he's been bothering us for months with his stupidity (getting drunk and arguing violently and loudly with his wife at least once every two weeks - and we just tolerated it). He shut his big mouth for a while . Then the focus moved to me .

He yelled back at me - telling me not to join in their "adults only" conversation and claimed he was only accusing my mother and grandmother (his sister and mother), and yelling that I had nothing to do with it (which I refused to accept since he was yelling in our house and accusing us, and I was only doing my duty of defending the family - moreso because he was blaming my mother and grandmother). He started yelling insults, and saying in our language that he was going to punch/beat me up. I answered back (again not as calmly as I should've), saying again that no one from here told anyone outside the house anothing about our klepto relative (she IS a relative, after all - perhaps he was disappointed that he no longer had anyone to run errands for him), and he started to approach me and continued yelling insults, saying to my mother that he thought I was educated (he wasn't expecting that response from me, I guess).

He was standing in the kitchen, I was seated with my back to the kitchen. As I turned to face him (we were having lunch - my mother, his senior by several years, stood near me between us, at the back of my chair, and pinched my shoulder - signalling for me to shut up - I did, but just in case, I had my hands ready to pull him in for a shotei uchi to his big mouth if he tried to get at me, to grab the utensils in front of me, or to grab the chair my mother was sitting on before she stood up between us.

Then he started telling my mother - in a louder, angrier voice - things like she should teach her son how to behave and kept repeating that I'm gonna get it from him (sorry - there's no exact translation from our language to English). I was content to spar verbally, but when he tried to approach me, I decided on waiting for him to get closer and strike at me, even though it was likely he wouldn't because my mother was blocking his way, and all during that short time, my mother had been saying in a cool voice that that was enough. Of course, the loud-mouthed uncle kept talking all the way out of the house to my mother about her "educating" her uncivilized son who was unfortunately unable to ravage his face and limbs...

Aside from the shotei uchi, ketchup bottles, and other utensils and objects withing arms' reach, various possible counters to strikes he might have made were rushing through my brain. However, my body was NOT responding to my mental commands the way I had wanted it to, and no matter how hard I tried to stay calm, my breathing was shallow and I didn't have full control of my limbs.

I wasn't afraid of him - three years of regular Goju Ryu training since about 2002 (stopped formal training 2005), and several months of Kali, along with years worth of reading of articles by experts online and here at, and from Shihan Michael Pace's newsletters) toughened my body and mind up enough to tolerate a lot of pain, and I was determined to take him down if the need arose - but I didn't have the mental strength to will my body into mushin.

The tension I felt earlier today was that same feeling most of us have during our first - and sometimes even subsequent - jiyu kumite session in the dojo; it was the same as in my first SEVERAL tennis, rugby, and soccer matches, and while playing certain video games for the first time. Heck, I was calmer during my second and third kumite tournaments.

My regular kata practice and shadow-fighting didn't help much (no dojos here for over a hundred kilometres, and even though watching boxing matches on TV is popular here, no one seems interested enough in any form of martial art to actually organize a training group - the police and military forces don't let outsiders in their training sessions, naturally). I think it might have been four years of lack of jiyu-kumite and other forms of sparring with a live opponent that caused it. Could also have been that in my anger and excitement, the adrenaline rushed too fast for me to control, and I know that I was NOT in an ideal fighting state - even my years of visualizations of me performing counter-offensives against violent attackers did not help at all. It was like part of my brain was telling my body: "No, no, no - relax, dude! He's your uncle - besides - you might end up in the police station - even if it's self-defense", and my body was saying to my brain: "Yeah, baby, c'mon! Smack the falla till he cries and begs for mercy!"

Anyway, for years I've been telling my parents - espcially my mother (who often sounds violent when she's really angry with something or someone), that the best way to solve a problem is not with anger but with calmness - which is exactly what she and my grandmother had been doing when my stupid uncle was yelling at them earlier. Even after I had butted in because I got fed up of his accusation, in the end, all my martial arts training were no match for the cool of the matrons and patron (all this while my father had just been watching and eating) of the house. I felt like a hypcrite after that. All that reading, practice, body conditioning and dodging, kicking, striking, and grappling came to naught.

I want to turn that fight-or-flight-or-keep-thinking state into something I can control. Will constant sparring be the only way I can overcome this? I can't very well go around like Mas Oyama Sama looking for people to fight with. I was determined to fight, but my synapses and neurons were misconfigured and out-of-sync with my brain. My physiological state needs a lot more work. My mind wasn't able to control my body. HELP ME, PLEASE!!!!

#416270 - 02/19/09 12:07 PM Re: Mentally Determined But Physically Uncontrollable [Re: Eduardo]
karl314285 Offline

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 326
Loc: The Matrix, Serif is Teacher
I prefer to call it "fight or freeze". I have similar issues. Nervous system in such crises is fast to act and fast to return to baseline, hormones are triggered by nervous enervation and once in bloodstream are slow to start and slow to be broken down and i know of no mental way to stop adrenaline. You DID right, you controlled the adrenaline urge to inappropriately attack, your normal. Practicing MORE fighting asap will flush (via urine) adrenaline out but might ingrain eventually an autopilot attack/defend response (a common stage to reach), then you will control these urges as you realize forking uncle buys free meals, orange jumpsuit, etc. Take pics w/ cell phone by surprise when he is showing his aggressive side and immed. call 911. back yourself up in case you have to go to court.
do not try to spork the post, for that is impossible, only realize there is no post to spork

#416271 - 02/20/09 05:06 AM Re: Mentally Determined But Physically Uncontrollable [Re: Eduardo]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
First of all if you KNOW he is beating his wife and kids why is he not in jail? I don't know what the laws are there, but I wouldn't tolerate it. Are you going to wait until he kills or maims someone and then think," well, I should of or could of?" Do something!

Get a restraining order against him, do not allow for this kind of behavior, it only gets worse over time.

You are too caught up in your emotional response and should be more worried about those who he is abusing. Think about the people that live with this emotional and physical abuse on a regular basis and act, quickly!
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<

#416272 - 02/20/09 06:40 PM Re: Mentally Determined But Physically Uncontrollable [Re: BrianS]
Eduardo Offline

Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 20
Loc: Nadi, Fiji
Found a related post:

@karl: That's quite a fitting term - thanks. So that's probably why some people urinate whenever they get nervous, huh? Guess I was lucky I didn't ;D... wonder how I can make him pee in his pants...

I don't have a cameraphone. Guess I'll have to keep the good old camera and bulky Camcorder handy so that instead of trying to pick a fight with the people here the next time around, he'll just run back home if I "point-and-shoot" those at him, eh? Meanwhile, I guess I'll have to find a sparring partner.

Were you ever able to overcome this state completely, or does it still happen - even slightly or once in a while?

@brian: My bad. Yeah, I wanted to file a restraining order - it would have been the first against him from outside his own nuclear family. However, as much as possible, in our culture, the norm is to settle things within the family - particularly if the extended family is involved - the police are a last resort, but he has a HISTORY of beating his wife and kids and has been in and out of the police station several times over the years.

The last time there was a violent argument next door, his wife didn't want to press charges, and managed to convince her youngest son not to do so either - so the police officers who were called (by the wife and youngest son) weren't able to do anything except warn him (he bloody coward was hiding in his house - his wife and son stayed at the police station), and that same day his oldest son lectured him by phone for quite a long while - that's when he promised he wouldn't get drunk and do those things to hii family again.

Perhaps that's one reason he decided to make trouble in our house, because he was "banned" from doing that in his, and probably unconsciously misses fighting verbally then physically. In our house, I live with three senior citizens. I did suggest a restraining order, but my elders didn't feel there was a need for it - he hasn't come near the house since that incident the other day, and I did cause that reaction from him after I yelled at him the same way he had just yelled at his own mother and sister. Problem was, by approaching me, it seemed he was looking for more than a verbal argument. But it in was our house and he was out of his domain.

Besides that, his oldest son, who's a high-ranking Marine official with years of field experience was brought up by my parents, and said stupid uncle always cowers whenever he gets lectured by him. He knows he's in trouble once again.

My biggest problem right now is still not him, but my body's reaction. He wasn't drunk - but if he was, things might have been worse (which is what the restraining order should be for, but it has yet to be approved by the rest of the house - still trying to convince my elders to file at least an incident report to our village head).

I guess he was shocked with my retort because I usually don't bother even speaking to him or anyone else. He's sort of one-sided, though - all I did was yell at him the same way he yelled at my mother and grandmother, and he didn't like it, but wasn't content with just yelling as he seemed to be itching to upgrade the fight from verbal to physical.

#416273 - 02/22/09 08:02 AM Re: Mentally Determined But Physically Uncontrollable [Re: Eduardo]
karl314285 Offline

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 326
Loc: The Matrix, Serif is Teacher
Dear Eduardo,
If his wife denies abuse and refuses to charge him, the Police can only document the call...the more calls does build a case but this personality may be provoked past what moments of lucidity he has left. This applies to taking photo of him at your house (camera phone can make movie too and be done in such a way multiple shots can be acquired), it may also prompt him to physically attack YOU, get beaten and dont strike back and call 911 before he does (he wont think to do this prob), call where he cant hear, dont clean up...present the situation the pictures and your bloody face and charge the [censored] w/ assault and battery (maybe even be so sly as to place a potentially deadly weapon he can grap, a pic of that escalates the charges, his hitting not good enough fall on table and break your own nose).
***No, to my misfortune even verbal attacks trigger an adrenaline dump, to my fortune I believe Master Dong taught me many awful things as he somehow knew I could and would control my self and my reactions...this however does not apply to reflexive responses, I do not know how long or intensely you have been training; but, there will eventually be reactions you have no conscious volition over, I generally mention to none any hint of training, eventually some tomfool finds out and comes from a blind spot in a place you should be safe (I was a teacher at a community college one lifetime ago) no real damage done...worse, reactions you dont know you have(guy wanted my seat at a bar decides to knee me in the gonads...I dont remember anything till some yelling voice broke through I recognized as friend, I honestly only recall blinding pain, not getting this guy in a guillotine, my friend saved us by stopping me from leaning back and dropping, Id be in jail now if not for John), long digression to..
***how far and to what end do you want your training to lead to. Fighting is to be avoided, supplement hard style (and Goju Ryu is the def hard end) with an internal art, after 20ish years I fear, hyper-vigilance, insomnia, and the anxiety from being an adrenaline machine will leave this body when I do. Peace. be careful w/ uncle, approach an Officer you can speak to off the record if you know any, find out your options
do not try to spork the post, for that is impossible, only realize there is no post to spork

#416274 - 02/22/09 08:45 AM Re: Mentally Determined But Physically Uncontrollable [Re: karl314285]
BlackPaladin Offline

Registered: 01/02/07
Posts: 29
He got his one pass. The next time? Beat that ass.

Seriously, though. My understanding is that you froze for several reasons. One reason is that you would have possibly seriously injured him. Even if your mother and grandmother are the only people who have more than an ounce of love for him any longer, your love and respect for the both of them was like subconscious shackles on your hands. That is just one of several things that were going through your head.

You had more things saying "Show him you aren't afraid, but don't throw the first blow" than you had saying "Finish him!"

#416275 - 02/22/09 02:50 PM Re: Mentally Determined But Physically Uncontrollable [Re: Eduardo]
karl314285 Offline

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 326
Loc: The Matrix, Serif is Teacher
How old is uncle, is he trained or ex-military, is his habitus frail or burly? You have training enough that any prosecutor can dig it up in a court of law, just beating someone for yelling or getting in your face gets you in jail which is why I advocate
1. Dont yell back, makes you look like instigator, soft quiet tone, voice of reason and diffusion of conflict with others present (meanwhile take the adrenalin dump and realize your training, mentally project aura of total dominance through your eyes and being, let him feel that you KNOW you own him if you choose)
2. If he cant beat you dead or permanently injure you, dont push him to attack (unless you can whisper or do something to provoke that no one present can see or hear, "Testify" that you provoked an attack) if he hears calmness but feels your confidence he might attack you (tho men who beat on weaker probably wont attack you). Take a shot or two esp. if it bloodies you up, call 911. Unprovoked assault and battery will be his to own, if you attack after and hurt him Mr. Prosecutor will bring up your history of training and you might be looking at aggravated A&B or A&B with potential deadly force. Even in self defense cases, if the other party is injured badly enough time in jail happens.
3. Yelling back only increases the adrenalin controlling your brain, as the brain triggers its release, calming the brain will at least stop more from being dumped, Breath, remember you are in control and you choose not to fight, calm exterior relaxed non-combative body posture (no face to face, turn sideways almost as though you are trying to see what he sees, he's messed up, prob most of life, beating on him solves nothing...911, public disturbance, threatening your case.
do not try to spork the post, for that is impossible, only realize there is no post to spork

#416276 - 02/24/09 03:28 PM Re: Mentally Determined But Physically Uncontrollable [Re: karl314285]
karl314285 Offline

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 326
Loc: The Matrix, Serif is Teacher
To all:
Please review and give input, esp LEO. Eduardo needs more input than those who advocate violence and my input may not be on target or need refinement.

Please, of the many posts this one cries for input before something bad happens....Karl
do not try to spork the post, for that is impossible, only realize there is no post to spork

#416277 - 03/15/09 04:36 AM Re: Mentally Determined But Physically Uncontrollable [Re: Eduardo]
Nasri Offline

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 4
These are 2 quotes i like to live by when occasions like these (an imminent fight/argument) come about.

1. Never fight with a Pig. Cos you'll both get dirty, and the Pig loves it.

2. When a Dog bites you, do you bite the Dog back?

Take Care and God Bless
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