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#413901 - 02/16/09 09:24 AM Re: original wing chun [Re: Olderman]
donchisau Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/06
Posts: 73
Older are you asking how do you take a person pushing you and not move or how will i find things to help explain what I am saying?

If talking about the structure test it is proper body use and alignment. However that is something bast taught in person because unless I see you I can't tell what your body is doing and how to correct it.

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#413902 - 02/16/09 04:04 PM Re: original wing chun [Re: donchisau]
Olderman Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 51
Quote:

Older are you asking how do you take a person pushing you and not move or how will i find things to help explain what I am saying?

If talking about the structure test it is proper body use and alignment. However that is something bast taught in person because unless I see you I can't tell what your body is doing and how to correct it.




How does a person get the skeleton alignment?
A brief description would be nice??

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#413903 - 02/17/09 02:14 AM Re: original wing chun [Re: donchisau]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
"For example. There are sweeps taught in the dummy so it makes sense that if you can get swept there would be methods to deal with a sweep or to get off the ground if put there."

How different is your school's dummy form from Ip Ching's?
What counts as 'sweeps', the sections where you lap sao/kick?
Isn't the only response to being thrown to the floor shown in the end of the 3rd form, or did I miss something?

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#413904 - 02/18/09 04:32 PM Re: original wing chun [Re: ShikataGaNai]
donchisau Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/06
Posts: 73
Shikata there are two more sweeps in the Yip form or at least there were at one time. The form yip ching does now has some changes from the one I learned and yip man also changed a few things from his early days.

In the section with the double chain kick. Instead of 2 there were 3. The section startd with a low drag ankle kick then the front kick with tan sau then the knees snapping kick with bong then you gum then when you step in with the pak and low spade hand to the dummy trunk instead of stepping in to the trunk it was taught as a circle step to the back of the dummy leg with the foot raised on it toe. You step down with the heel in the back of the leg at the same instant as you change the gum to the low spade hand the pak is a lap.

Our form is similar to the Yip Form but with sections the yip form lacks. 3 elbow sections ,attacking kwan sau sections, triangle step sections, attacking bong sections, active bui sections, using bui to move outside and inside,more kicking and leg work sections.

Yip taught his early students the kneeling horse and its uses. Other wing chun styles have the kneeling horse as well. It is in our 3rd form and also there are kneeling san sik as well this is in addition to the last move of bui jee which is really more for showing a version of the bob and weave than for getting up from the ground. Yip Man never really gave anyone a good explanation of that last move. The getting up from the ground was WSL idea about its use.

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#413905 - 02/18/09 04:37 PM Re: original wing chun [Re: Olderman]
donchisau Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/06
Posts: 73
Older I am not really technical enough to tell you how typing other than the normal hips forward head hanging from a string stuff.A chiropractor would be your best bet. You need to be moved around a push there a tilt here to get you into proper alignment. Some things really need to be taught hands on.

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#413906 - 02/18/09 08:18 PM Re: original wing chun [Re: donchisau]
futsaowingchun Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 98
Loc: New Jersey
Quote:

Shikata you make a very good point. I think it is best not to listen to what those that follow party dogma say.

All arts at one time contained all forms of combat. Just because Yip Man taught or didn't teach something doesn't mean it's not there. For example. There are sweeps taught in the dummy so it makes sense that if you can get swept there would be methods to deal with a sweep or to get off the ground if put there. Everyone agrees on the chum kui arm break. it maks sense that if there is a clear arm break there should also be wrist and shoulder breaks/locks too.
From my point of view just because some small minds take the position that"Yip Man didn't teach is so its not wing chun" does not mean we have to follow and give up our own thoughts and observations. Besides nobody knows what Yip Man taught. His fatshan students have different things than his HK students and look at the differences between HK students. Yip Ching different than Yip Chun both different than Moy Yot who is different than Leung Ting who is different than Leung Shun who is different that Tsui shun Tin etc etc.
Perhaps when you are adding things from other arts you are adding back in what was there in the first place.

Yip Man always said he taught concepts not rules. Looked at this way there are many possibilities.

What makes wing chun different from other arts is not the hand shapes or kicks its the internal structure and power generation methods. Look at Hung Gar Iron wire set or SPM use of rib power and compare to wing chun. That is where the difference comes in. Not the hands sweeps joint locks etc.




Good post...I agree.
_________________________
http://www.futsaowingchun.info

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#413907 - 02/18/09 10:30 PM Re: original wing chun [Re: donchisau]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
I'm sorry, my Chinese sucks - what does san sik mean?

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#413908 - 02/19/09 09:26 AM Re: original wing chun [Re: ShikataGaNai]
donchisau Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/06
Posts: 73
San sik are seperate techniques. Really little mini forms. Yip Man taught 18 to his early students then stopped teaching them. Something like a kwan sau follow by a po pie would be an example of one. Most wing chun families have forms plus san sik. Some like Kulo only have san sik that they connected into a form.

When I taught security contractors for Iraq I just taught san sik. quick fast fighting actions. No in depth forms or details.

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#413909 - 02/19/09 01:29 PM Re: original wing chun [Re: donchisau]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
Ok - that's exactly what I've seen done in seminars and more short-term self defense courses.
In fact, I just saw a newer episode of Fight Quest where Jimmy and Doug go to HK to train in WC. The mainly learn chain punching (because Leung Ting is involved), but do san sik and some really lousy chi sao as well. Check it out on youtube, if you get the chance!

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#413910 - 02/20/09 03:46 PM Re: original wing chun [Re: ShikataGaNai]
donchisau Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/06
Posts: 73
Wow! How horrible was that? If this is what passes for wing chun then its no wonder people doubt wing chun as an effective fighting art.
I always thought Leung Tings wing chun was weak now I have no doubt.

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