FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 37 Guests and 6 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
LeroyCFischer, JadeKing, Beefcake, WesJones, simonajones111
22933 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
charlie 2
futsaowingchun 2
Matakiant 1
William_Bent 1
simonajones111 1
November
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30
New Topics
unrecognized kata
by William_Bent
11/19/14 07:05 PM
I gained a lot of month in the last few months
by simonajones111
11/19/14 04:54 AM
Siu Lin Tao-3rd section applications
by futsaowingchun
11/13/14 06:48 PM
Screen fighting course UK December 2014
by charlie
11/11/14 04:09 PM
Siu Lin Tao-1st section Pak Sao explanations
by futsaowingchun
11/09/14 10:30 PM
I spy kata bunkai..
by GojuRyuboy13
10/29/14 08:28 AM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
MA style video library
by
03/22/06 03:18 PM
Recent Posts
unrecognized kata
by William_Bent
11/19/14 07:05 PM
I gained a lot of month in the last few months
by simonajones111
11/19/14 04:54 AM
Siu Lin Tao-3rd section applications
by futsaowingchun
11/13/14 06:48 PM
Screen fighting course UK December 2014
by charlie
11/11/14 04:09 PM
MA style video library
by charlie
11/11/14 04:05 PM
Siu Lin Tao-1st section Pak Sao explanations
by futsaowingchun
11/09/14 10:30 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/29/14 10:01 PM
I spy kata bunkai..
by GojuRyuboy13
10/29/14 08:28 AM
Forum Stats
22933 Members
36 Forums
35589 Topics
432521 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 2 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >
Topic Options
#413871 - 01/09/09 12:37 PM Re: original wing chun [Re: donchisau]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
After looking at your Small idea form what I see is Tachi like flowing moves wrapped in the WC moves different from the method I've been taught. I wish I could see it at regular speed, it is not short and jerky like the Tsin chun and Yipman Wing Chun that I'm use to seeing.

But I really think you are asking alot from any classical system to compare it to MMA which is a meger of principles. Now to boxing in a clinch I see no problem there and sure there will be a lot to learn for both of you. One of the unique things about good WC is the in the clinch low kicks or sticky leg stuff can still be applied.
_________________________
DBAckerson

Top
#413872 - 01/09/09 03:47 PM Re: original wing chun [Re: Neko456]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
You're totally right. We had a saying in an FMA class I used to attend - FMA is MMA. And it was true - no principle from any style was taboo, so long as it worked with the core skills.
I think this is the next logical step for CMA's as well. Sort of a consolidation. A big step toward that IMO is for wing chun people to start learning from each other instead of walking around thinnking their lineage is THE lineage. I wish I had more access to more styles, because I love CMA in general and I think there is a lot of effectiveness and good training there. It wouldn't be hard for a WC guy to learn some SPM, CLF, Hung Gar and certain Tai Chi styles. Throw in some San Da style grappling and you've got something. Unfortunately, the master-student old world egotism is still very prevalent and the CMA community is generally unwilling to share and accept cross training.
It's the same old story that JKD pepl will go on and on about - it's just that no one wants to do anything about it because it's too easy to go along with a borderline dogmatic belief in the specific style one studies.
CMA can absolutely be cultivated as MMA. There is a huge diversity of technique and skill there - more than anyone could master in a lifetime. Don't discount that.

Top
#413873 - 01/09/09 04:46 PM Re: original wing chun [Re: ShikataGaNai]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Really I agree with you but classical WC will have to take a more open approach to things. As you say forget that its thought of as Fighting Gung-fu and just fight.

I agree Mastering a system will let you apply it better but I also think it can trap you into a way. As I train with this WC Sifu I hear this all the time that elbow locked in the center line is paramount and a weakness if you are fighting seriously. Being versed at fighting I don't see this as fact, protecting the center line is but staying on the center line is not that important I'd rather be off shoulder or behind him, thats a premimum to me. So I see the strength in what he is saying if you are fighting in a certain method, but if you are just fighting where anything goes we differ. Personally I like the Tachi and Pakua method of getting behind and wild crazy throws rather then taking in the strict just do this method of WC. I do like WCs simplicity and flow and as we know the other two are far from simple to train. Pros and Con like anything else.
_________________________
DBAckerson

Top
#413874 - 01/09/09 06:09 PM Re: original wing chun [Re: Neko456]
donchisau Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/06
Posts: 73
Yes Neko I suppose it is tai chi like in some ways. WC was considered an internal style in China. Internal being focus is on using the skeleton and tendons as primary source of power.

VS MMA the real issue is that most WC has lost the original intent. We are all human with same limitations so all arts should have ways to deal with the same things. A boxer or MT person can not do anything a WC or street fighter etc can not do.

For example in most WC you see today the fighters use a very upright stance this leads to easy take downs and throws etc yet in my wing chun and other older versions a great deal of training is done using a low stance much like a wrestler. The knife form for example is done in a low horse yet you muct also be very mobile to fight with weapons. This type of training and the principils behind it have been lost.
The key to fighting is control of your center of gravity and gaining control of the other persons cog. A throw or a take down is a good example of complete control of the cog.

In wrestling there are 3 layers of defense head then arms and last the sprawl. WC being a striking art you dont want to use the head as the first layer of defense however your posture and position should make your hands the first layer. So your fighting position in WC should enable you to like a wrestler protect against a take down with your arms and provide a low COG making it harder to throw you while making it easier to throw the opponent.

When WC and all CMA's were first conceived throws sweeps joint locks etc were common and therefore being able to defend against them as well as perform them while striking was part of the basic training.
So from my pov I am not asking much at all to compare my WC to MMA stand up skills ( ground fighting is another story and WC people should learn BBJ or catch wrestling for this). The problem is so much has been lost in the basic WC training and usage that WC people have been forced to go outside WC to fill in those area's. The problem is as soon as you mix boxing with wing chun you lose the wing chun mechanics. If thats what someone is going to do they are far better off spending their time training boxing or MT or MMA stand up than spliting time between WC and boxing unless they have a great deal of time to train.

Top
#413875 - 01/10/09 08:45 PM Re: original wing chun [Re: donchisau]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
I think it comes down to interest too. Whereas a lot of people train to become the best at what they do, either in their own eyes or to others, I feel like when I've made a few breakthroughs it's fair to cross train a little more. I train in boxing to learn how boxers work. I make a point to work on my dummy form equally throughout the week for every hour I spend at the gym boxing. It also makes training with other WC people better because when we pracitce defending against a 'boxer's punch', I can deliver one realistically. That's another problem there - too much training on how to deal with this guy or that guy, without that guy being there.
This is all familiar territory that's been discussed here many times.
But I'm really focused on the fture - I think WC teachers should implement basic boxing and wrestling classes without turning the WC curriculum into a 'JKD' thing. I totally agree with what Don said - the answers to most situations are in the system somewhere - but they need outside influence to be tested and proven these days, without comprimising the training or fixing what really isn't broke.

Top
#413876 - 01/30/09 12:53 PM Re: original wing chun *DELETED* [Re: ShikataGaNai]
m9k Offline
Banned

Registered: 01/30/09
Posts: 12
Loc: USA
Post deleted by Gavin

Top
#413877 - 02/02/09 01:07 PM attn mod: advertising [Re: m9k]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
^
_________________________
"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."
--Basho

Top
#413878 - 02/06/09 06:28 PM Re: original wing chun [Re: ShikataGaNai]
futsaowingchun Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 105
Loc: New Jersey
This is a very good post.I I think WC and any Kung Fu style needs at a certain point in their training needs to test or cross train with other people to see how good they really are and to get experience which is the most important point. With experience comes confidence.
_________________________
http://www.futsaowingchun.info

Top
#413879 - 02/09/09 12:50 PM Re: original wing chun [Re: donchisau]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Did Yip man change the system to make it easier to learn or did he change it to make it more compact to teach. But we can't blame it on Yip man because most Wing Chun/Tsun/Tsung seems to have the short jerky flow using more snap power then the smoother flow of your WC.



I've never seen low stances in WC except in some of there weapon forms or sticky leg drills. It makes you wonder what Wing Chun really looks like before the change.

Who were some of Yip man's Sifu students that were his equalled or was his senior in class? As with most system I sure there are several branches or you wouldn't look so different.
_________________________
DBAckerson

Top
#413880 - 02/09/09 02:15 PM Re: original wing chun [Re: Neko456]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
Depends on who you ask - and if you really want to. This question tends to lead to the lineage BS that doesn't matter.
I think though, that most WC people will unanimously cite Wong Shun Leung as the greatest fighter of Ip Man's teachings. He was senior student for a long time, till Sijo Ip passed away, then he opened his school.

The 'jerkiness' you're talking about is really just the result of keeping one's energy controlled in short bursts coupled with the linear nature of WC technique. A lot of schools get too caught up in the aesthetic of it, and make it ineffective in their approach.

Top
Page 2 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >


Moderator:  Cord, Gavin, JasonM, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Ryukyu Art
Artifacts from the Ryukyu Kingdom missing since WWII. Visit www.ShisaLion.Org to view pictures

Best Stun Guns
Self Defense Products-stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and more

Surveillance 4U
Complete surveillance systems for covert operations or secure installation security

Asylum Images
Book presents photo tour of the Trans-Allegany Lunatic Asylum. A must if you're going to take a ghost tour!

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga