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#413503 - 01/20/09 02:40 PM Re: A question on MA culture [Re: screamingflea]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Screamingflea:

Personal situations whether yours or mine are irrelevent to class. Meaning the identical rules apply period. Do I have an open cut then, I have to care for it, period. Am I glaring at/lusting after the bodies of the young women (or men) in class?

Whatever the particular case(s) might be... are we following the fundamental rules of behavior or not? If so, I do not care whether you are male, female gay or straight or anything else. I am not there for a date we are there to train and get better, learn about our abilities, skills and help get pushed into new arenas!

Nothing is different... merely because you are gay.
Jeff

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#413504 - 01/20/09 03:14 PM Re: A question on MA culture [Re: stac3y]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

This makes me curious. Are you saying you would be uncomfortable with the potential sexual element? If so, should men and women not train together if there's going to be physical contact? Should married or otherwise attached MAs eschew groundfighting with MAs of the opposite sex?






1. Yes
2. I cannot say what other men and women should or should not do. That's up to them.
3. Up to them, I'm not trying to impose my preferences on anyone. I'm just stating mine.

I train with women and don't mind the contact, but there is no sexual element there at all. I've never met a woman who likes martial arts, and me.

If my opinion on training preference makes me a bad, mean person in anyone's eyes then so be it. Seems to be the popular view nowadays.

Peace, love, and cookies for everyone!!


p.s. the health concerns comment probably wasn't warranted.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#413505 - 01/20/09 05:07 PM Re: A question on MA culture [Re: stac3y]
Zombie Zero Offline
Compliance & Liability
Veteran

Registered: 06/17/05
Posts: 1993
Loc: Lorton, VA
Well said, Stac3y.

Personally, I wouldn't care if my training partner was a homosexual. If he and I can help each other learn to grapple, then he can march in the Pride Parade wearing assless chaps for all I care. Just because we're rolling doesn't make me worry he's suddenly going to try and get all bow-chicka-bow-wow with me. He likes dudes, so what?

Brian, while I disagree with your viewpoint, I believe you are well within your right to express it in the way that you did. I'm not -as someone suggested- going to reprimand you about it.

As far as I'm concerned, the First Amendment is alive and well on FA.com.

If someone says, "I am uncomfortable around homosexuals" then that is a statement of opinion.

If they instead say something like, "I hate f*ggots" then they'd meet with the business end of a ban hammer.

Point being, there's a difference.

I'm not going to suppress anybody's ability to express themselves. Unpopular opinions are allowed here. Blatant hate speech is not.
_________________________
In my walk in the martial way, my hope is that as long as I live, I will always be a beginner.

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#413506 - 01/20/09 05:52 PM Re: A question on MA culture [Re: Zombie Zero]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
Sanity rules yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Group hug anyone???



With the respectful exclusion of Brian.





























Coz he's got warts!!!!
_________________________
http://www.semtexgym.co.uk/

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#413507 - 01/20/09 07:53 PM Re: A question on MA culture [Re: Zombie Zero]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
And well said, yourself, ZZ. I think that small point about being allowed to express differences of opinions, and expect them to treated with respect (and that includes respect from moderators), to be particularly important.

In that spirit, and because you asked me to, I've modified my profile.

Quote:

Well said, Stac3y.

Personally, I wouldn't care if my training partner was a homosexual. If he and I can help each other learn to grapple, then he can march in the Pride Parade wearing assless chaps for all I care. Just because we're rolling doesn't make me worry he's suddenly going to try and get all bow-chicka-bow-wow with me. He likes dudes, so what?

Brian, while I disagree with your viewpoint, I believe you are well within your right to express it in the way that you did. I'm not -as someone suggested- going to reprimand you about it.

As far as I'm concerned, the First Amendment is alive and well on FA.com.

If someone says, "I am uncomfortable around homosexuals" then that is a statement of opinion.

If they instead say something like, "I hate f*ggots" then they'd meet with the business end of a ban hammer.

Point being, there's a difference.

I'm not going to suppress anybody's ability to express themselves. Unpopular opinions are allowed here. Blatant hate speech is not.



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#413508 - 01/20/09 10:50 PM Re: A question on MA culture [Re: harlan]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
Quote:

that small point about being allowed to express differences of opinions, and expect them to treated with respect (and that includes respect from moderators), to be particularly important.




If it seems I treated Brian's comment in a way that is not respectful then...good. Because I have no respect at all for homophobic language. I have no need, or want, to hold such ignorant language in higher regard than it deserves. The same for racist, chauvinist, or other language of that ilk.

To respect, merely for the sake of it, opinions such as these, is to disrespect those towards whom such comments are initially made.

* * *
That being said, I have spoken to Zombie Zero about this, and he feels that Brian's language did not cross a line, or violate a rule. Personally, I draw my line shorter. Our interpretations vary on this. But the final decision is Zombie Zero's, as it is his final decision on the interpretation of the rules, and I respect the interpretation he has made.

That doesn't mean I have to respect Brian's opinion on this matter though. I am still free to voice my opinion about it.

--Chris


Edited by Ames (01/20/09 10:58 PM)

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#413509 - 01/20/09 11:00 PM Re: A question on MA culture [Re: Ames]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Get a grip.

How could my opinion of preferring not to "roll" with a homosexual be made toward anyone?

Can I not have a preference?

I make no apologies, but again the health concerns probably weren't warranted.

It has nothing to do with race or being chauvenistic either. All is not permissible to me. You can have at it though.

p.s. I never asked you or anyone else to respect my opinion. If you don't like it, then tough tiddlies.


Edited by BrianS (01/20/09 11:02 PM)
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#413510 - 01/20/09 11:17 PM Re: A question on MA culture [Re: BrianS]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
Brian, that post wasn't addressed to you, which is why I put the quote there--to make it clear the specific comment I was addressing. So, I realize you never asked me or anyone else to respect your opinion. Another poster did.

I'm not sure what you mean by "How could my opinion of preferring not to "roll" with a homosexual be made toward anyone?" so I'm not going to speak to that. My point is that it was a homophobic comment. That is all. I'm not even saying that you are a homophobe. I don't know you well enough to say that. But that doesn't change what that comment was.

Regarding "It has nothing to do with race or being chauvenistic either". Although it doesn't mean that you are a racist, or a chauvinist, it does have something to do with those things: homophobic speech is discriminatory speech, like racist or chauvinist speech. That is the commonality. If you don't like then 'tough tiddles'.

Oh, and please don't tell me to "get a grip". I would suggest you 'get a grip' and lose the ego, if you think a homosexual male is going to get turned on by rolling with you.

--Chris


Edited by Ames (01/20/09 11:20 PM)
_________________________
"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."
--Basho

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#413511 - 01/20/09 11:23 PM Re: A question on MA culture [Re: Ames]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
I'm sure you'd be completely apalled by my other views,lol.


Quote:

I would suggest you 'get a grip' and lose the ego, if you think a homosexual male is going to get turned on by rolling with you.






I never said that, get your facts straight and drop your baggage at the door.

I simply said I'm not comfortable. Isn't that just awful!!!!!
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#413512 - 01/21/09 12:02 AM Re: A question on MA culture [Re: BrianS]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
Quote:

I never said that, get your facts straight and drop your baggage at the door.




Brian:
Quote:

"I would not be comfortable training with a homosexual in an environment where we made physical contact. I would also have health concerns."




Poster asks:
Quote:

"Are you saying you would be uncomfortable with the potential sexual element? "




Brian answers:
Quote:

"Yes."




Care to tell me what "facts" I'm missing here?? Because it sure seems like that is EXACTLY what you are said.


--Chris
_________________________
"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."
--Basho

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