FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 27 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
LeroyCFischer, JadeKing, Beefcake, WesJones, simonajones111
22933 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
charlie 2
futsaowingchun 2
Zombie Zero 1
harlan 1
Matakiant 1
November
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30
New Topics
unrecognized kata
by William_Bent
11/19/14 07:05 PM
I gained a lot of month in the last few months
by simonajones111
11/19/14 04:54 AM
Siu Lin Tao-3rd section applications
by futsaowingchun
11/13/14 06:48 PM
Screen fighting course UK December 2014
by charlie
11/11/14 04:09 PM
Siu Lin Tao-1st section Pak Sao explanations
by futsaowingchun
11/09/14 10:30 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
MA style video library
by
03/22/06 03:18 PM
Recent Posts
unrecognized kata
by William_Bent
11/19/14 07:05 PM
I gained a lot of month in the last few months
by simonajones111
11/19/14 04:54 AM
Siu Lin Tao-3rd section applications
by futsaowingchun
11/13/14 06:48 PM
Screen fighting course UK December 2014
by charlie
11/11/14 04:09 PM
MA style video library
by charlie
11/11/14 04:05 PM
Siu Lin Tao-1st section Pak Sao explanations
by futsaowingchun
11/09/14 10:30 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/29/14 10:01 PM
Forum Stats
22933 Members
36 Forums
35589 Topics
432521 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#413374 - 01/04/09 12:53 AM Re: Adrenaline [Re: drgndrew]
duanew Offline
Member

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 326
Loc: MN
However this only addresses the physical aspect of FoF, there is a small emotional component, but nothing like the emotions experienced in a real self defence situation.

See the Fight or Flight is an emotional response, even though th physical sensations are similar or the same, the emotion that elicits the response (and the stimulus) dictates the effect of the response. It is the emotional component of FoF that produces the strongest freeze response

Basically not all adrenaline dumps are the same, sparring for eg, produces adrenaline, there is a degree of fear (fear of being hurt, failure, non performance etc) but there is a lack of emotionally elicited fear response. different fears produce different uses of FoF.






The Fight, flight or freeze response is caused by stress chemicals making the heart rate exceeding 175 bpm. The FoF is an instinctual response triggered by stress. That trigger is different for every person-it may even vary for the same person in two similar situations.
The effects of stress are evidenced by the heart rate caused by the level of stress. Freezing occurs when brain activity shifts ( at around 175 bpm) from the fore brain to the mid-brain and a response has not been programmed into the mid-brain. Since there is no response stored in the mid-brain it "freezes" until it can come up with a response.
Stress resulting in a heart rate less than 175 bpm will have different effects-examples
115-deterioration of fine motor skills
145-deterioration of complex motor skills
Other examples of stress responses-physical and perceptual
auditory exclusion, tachypsychia, vasoconstriction, hyper optic optical shift,

A good reference http://www.killology.com/art_psych_combat.htm

Stress inoculation and deep breathing will help you combat stress. The drills shown look pretty good and have given me couple of ideas. I've already been using the spin drill.
_________________________
Duane

Top
#413375 - 01/04/09 03:08 AM Re: Adrenaline [Re: duanew]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
Quote:


Freezing occurs when brain activity shifts ( at around 175 bpm) from the fore brain to the mid-brain and a response has not been programmed into the mid-brain. Since there is no response stored in the mid-brain it "freezes" until it can come up with a response.



.

This is pretty spot on, the freeze is often caused by a feedback loop, except it isn't so much to do with not finding a response, but more to do with an inability to chose a response. we always have a response either fight or flight, the freeze occurs because of interference in the process from our cognitive mind and emotions. basically the lack of response is due to an inability to choose among competing responses.

During FoF the activity in the brain does concentrate inward and the Mid brain becomes the dominant area memories aren't stored in the mid brain, but can be accessed by it. this is what occurs in the secondary pathway of FoF. the first pathway activates the body for action, the second consults the memory for similar stimulus and prior responses. It's here where our higher order emotions and thoughts stuff up the natural process.

Our (humans) greatest advantage actually inhibits our instinctual responses, our emotions such as pride, anger etc inhibit the flight response, our cognitive thoughts often repeat questions or swim in apathy and denial. (why is this happening?)

animals don't do that, a rabbit doesn't stand around and think, it just bolts.

anyway I'm waffling.

by the way it is only Fight and Flight not fight, flight and freeze. Freezing is not part of the process, every thing about the FoF response is designed for action not freezing. freezing is a consequence.

anyway enough from me
_________________________
Sumo Pacis (Choose Peace)

With Honour in Bushido
Drew Guest
www.ToowoombaSelfDefence.websyte.com.au
Bushi Dojos Self Protection
Toowoomba Self Defence

Top
#413376 - 01/04/09 02:07 PM Re: Adrenaline [Re: drgndrew]
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
thanks for the link, thats some good stuff.
_________________________
its not supposed to make sense

Top
#413377 - 01/04/09 10:33 PM Re: Adrenaline [Re: student_of_life]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
Hey Shauninay,

The article I sent you has just been published in the 2008/2009 Instructors Fighting Techniques, Special Collectors Edition of Blitz Martial arts magazine.

Just thought You may want to know, plus it gives me a chance to blow my trumpet a little


Edited by drgndrew (01/04/09 10:36 PM)
_________________________
Sumo Pacis (Choose Peace)

With Honour in Bushido
Drew Guest
www.ToowoombaSelfDefence.websyte.com.au
Bushi Dojos Self Protection
Toowoomba Self Defence

Top
#413378 - 01/07/09 10:38 AM Re: Adrenaline [Re: drgndrew]
duanew Offline
Member

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 326
Loc: MN
by the way it is only Fight and Flight not fight, flight and freeze. Freezing is not part of the process, every thing about the FoF response is designed for action not freezing. freezing is a consequence.





In her book Deadly Force Encounters Dr. Artwohl list three responses to Fear-Fight, Flight or Freeze.To quote,"What if you can't escape by flight and the adversary is too big to defeat in a fight? That is why Mother Nature gave you the third option:"
At this point I have muddled the concepts together-to clarify. Freezing as described by Dr. Artwohl as one of the three fear responses. And freezing mentally which of course is different.
Dave Grossman talks about the four F's as responses to fear-Fight, Flight, Freeze and Procreate
_________________________
Duane

Top
#413379 - 01/07/09 07:43 PM Re: Adrenaline [Re: duanew]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
Quote:


In her book Deadly Force Encounters Dr. Artwohl list three responses to Fear-Fight, Flight or Freeze.To quote,"What if you can't escape by flight and the adversary is too big to defeat in a fight? That is why Mother Nature gave you the third option:"
At this point I have muddled the concepts together-to clarify. Freezing as described by Dr. Artwohl as one of the three fear responses. And freezing mentally which of course is different.
Dave Grossman talks about the four F's as responses to fear-Fight, Flight, Freeze and Procreate




G'day Duane,

Physically Freezing or playing possum most definately is a defensive response used by many species. I just don't see it as a acute stress response. The defence mechanism of freezing may very well be an automatic response in some animals but usually this defence tactic is also specific to the predator of that species. i haven't done any study on this, it's just from observation but animals that utilize freezing or playing dead tend to face threats from "chase" predators. Thus playing dead counters the chase reflex.

Humans however are predator species not prey species, I'm not aware of any predator species that uses freeze as a defensive tactic (observations not claiming scientific fact here)

Basically my view of freezing is that, in humans, it is a consequence coming about from FoF, rather then a response of the FoF. hence when talking about human FoF I don't agree with the inclusion of Freeze. Globally I guess it is but specifically it may not be.

This is mainly semantic i guess, my preference.

PS procreate doesn't start with "F"


Edited by drgndrew (01/07/09 07:46 PM)
_________________________
Sumo Pacis (Choose Peace)

With Honour in Bushido
Drew Guest
www.ToowoombaSelfDefence.websyte.com.au
Bushi Dojos Self Protection
Toowoomba Self Defence

Top
#413380 - 01/08/09 06:01 AM Re: Adrenaline [Re: Shauninay]
NewJitsu Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 130
Loc: Midlands, UK
Although reading can never replace real situations / intensive training, consider purchasing 2 Geoff Thompson books that focus largely on adrenaline. 'Watch My Back' is a story of his time on the doors and 'Dead or Alive' is more factual than autobiographical. But when it comes to understanding adrenaline, Geoof's probably the world's no.1
_________________________
- Andy Trying to balance JJJ and MMA. And failing.

Top
#413381 - 01/08/09 06:06 AM Re: Adrenaline [Re: NewJitsu]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
Quote:

Although reading can never replace real situations / intensive training, consider purchasing 2 Geoff Thompson books that focus largely on adrenaline. 'Watch My Back' is a story of his time on the doors and 'Dead or Alive' is more factual than autobiographical. But when it comes to understanding adrenaline, Geoof's probably the world's no.1




Good Call
Check out dead or alive on line follow the links in the following thread
http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...=0#Post15905133
_________________________
Sumo Pacis (Choose Peace)

With Honour in Bushido
Drew Guest
www.ToowoombaSelfDefence.websyte.com.au
Bushi Dojos Self Protection
Toowoomba Self Defence

Top
#413382 - 01/11/09 04:36 PM Re: Adrenaline [Re: drgndrew]
Shauninay Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/26/08
Posts: 8
Note your trumpet blowing noted and appreciated haha
_________________________
www.hybredwingchun.com/

Top
#413383 - 01/12/09 05:31 AM Re: Adrenaline [Re: drgndrew]
duanew Offline
Member

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 326
Loc: MN
A predator is a predator when it hunts its' prey. It is prey when hunted by another predator.The freeze happens in animals and humans-predator and prey alike.
In the olden days when sabre tooth tigers roamed the earth and came across our ancestors they had three options-
1. Band together and fight.
2. Run and let the slowest one get caught.
3. Remain motionless and hope the cat didn't scent you.
Those who chose to go towards the cat saying ,"here kitty, kitty." were eliminated from the gene pool. Leaving the first three as hard wired instinctual responses to fear.

Duane

Top
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  Cord, Dedicated1, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Stun Guns
Variety of stun gun devices for your protection

Buy Pepper Spray
Worry about your family when you’re not around? Visit us today to protect everything you value.

Koryu.com
Accurate information on the ancient martial traditions of the Japanese samurai

C2 Taser
Protect yourself and loved ones from CRIME with the latest C2 Taser citizen model. Very effective.

 

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga