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#413320 - 12/28/08 02:29 PM Re: wing chun punches [Re: bcihak]
student_of_life Offline

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
theres a saying in alot of martial arts traditions thats says when you hit a hard target use a soft weapon, and when you hit a soft target use a hard weapon. which means your knuckles could break if you hit someone in the skull, or on the point on the elbow (ie. philipino "spiking") so its commen sense to use for example the palm of your hand to strike the skull. or you could be smart about it and aim your punches at the jaw or nose. acidents will happen, but i would definatly argue your point that the chances are "good" of breaking your hand. there is a chance, but how good it is, is not really debatable. wing chun, like many other chinease styles make use of attacking with the palm, so it is something they would teach you.

since you now have a chance to take wing chun, can i ask how your training is going with it? is it what you thought it would be?
its not supposed to make sense

#413321 - 12/28/08 06:45 PM Re: wing chun punches [Re: student_of_life]
donchisau Offline

Registered: 11/04/06
Posts: 73
First Like to say Woohoo! for another wing chun thread. Hope everyone has had a good holiday.

As we are all human with the same limitations etc there are always going to be similarities in fighting methods. The differences tend to be power generation and internal vs external power sources etc.

There are 8 basic punches in wing chun both vertical and horizontal fists are part of the 8.

The SPM vs WC difference tends to be in the power generation. SPM famous for the rib power wing chun has two gings the dog shake water method from white crane and the snake spits or attacks from Emei snake. The use of the waist comes from a method of dog shakes.

Edited by donchisau (12/28/08 06:45 PM)

#413322 - 12/28/08 08:13 PM Re: wing chun punches [Re: donchisau]
bcihak Offline

Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 298
Loc: Illinois
student_of_life, I have not started yet but the opportunity may have appeared in the JKD forum. Someone is opening a school in Desplaines illinois which might just be a manageable location for me. I agree about hitting the head with a palm. It is safer than using a fist and can be a bit more shocking to the target.

#413323 - 12/30/08 07:59 PM Re: wing chun punches [Re: bcihak]
ShikataGaNai Offline

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA

shikataganai,( I watched the video and then clicked on their sparring video) the one question I have about the sparring video is the continuous punching to the face works, when the attacker has gloves and the punchee has a helmet. In reality, wouldn't the one punching very likely break both of his hands. I also understand that the guy getting punched would not be in a good way as well. I'm curious about your thoughts.

Hi, bcihak...

The controlled sparring video you saw is actually me vs. my sifu. Yes, you feel those shots with the mask on. No, he didn't hurt his hands, but of course I've seen him full-on rail the dummy so his fists are pretty well conditioned.

The school (VTSDA) is actually in Chicago's chinatown, and you may want to make the drive to check it out. I moved away from the area but still keep in touch and visit sifu when I can because I think his grasp on the system is one of the best out there.

Arthur - you're totally right. If I had the means, I would train in SPM for a while. The differences and the unique techniques it offers really interest me. Unfortunately, it's really hard to find a school that teaches it, much less well.

#413324 - 12/31/08 02:39 AM Re: wing chun punches [Re: ShikataGaNai]
IExcalibui2 Offline

Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 961
Loc: New York City know my name?

SPM is difficult to come by, and without good instruction i find that students can get lost very easily in the proper ways to train. Its pretty unique in the states, though there might be school out in Chicago. Either a Jook Lum or Chu Gar SPM school should be around if there is a school around.
"you're going to work till you wish you were dead and then keep going.." -Sgt Slaughter

#413325 - 12/31/08 12:27 PM Re: wing chun punches [Re: IExcalibui2]
donchisau Offline

Registered: 11/04/06
Posts: 73
There is or at least was a SPM school in Chicago. It was in Chinatown at the time. I spent an hour or so one afternoon there having a hands on discussion this was about ten years ago. The teacher was very traditional ie.racist. Did not teach gwailo. It was near the Freemasons hall in a basement of a restaurant as I recall.
Was only there 1 time so can't tell you much more.

#413326 - 01/01/09 05:53 AM Re: wing chun punches [Re: donchisau]
staticman Offline

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 15
you say there are 8 different punches in wing chun. also the 2 gings(?dog shake and snake spits)these are things i havenot heard of before-can you explain thanks

#413327 - 01/01/09 04:52 PM Re: wing chun punches [Re: staticman]
donchisau Offline

Registered: 11/04/06
Posts: 73
Sure will do what i can in a post.

I am guessing your are in the Yip Man family. Yip simplified a lot of stuff and cut other stuff out on purpose so lot's of info got lost unless a student he liked asked him the right questions.

8 Punches I am not talking about variations like turning punch and bounce punch are variations of the sun vertical fist punch. rather 8 seperate motions or types of punching groups. the eight are vertical first punch, horizontal first punch, hook punch,hammer first punch, reverse vertical punch ( this is a high to low punch), upper cut,back first( called hanging first)and tiger tail. Other punches like whipping punch cannon punch etc are methods that can be applied to any punch.

Gings. Ging is hard to teach and explain. Yip Man tried to simplify them because his students were more interested in fighting as fast as possible.

The use of waist energy is a simplification of white cranes ging. It is called dog shakes because that what it is from. Watch a dog dry itself when wet. That is pure natural fajing. Watch white crane people and you will see that side to side shake. It comes from the ab area area. Yip Ching talks about the waist energy a lot.

Snake ging is more advanced and subtle and is the real reason bui jee was said to be a secret form. Again it is simple to see . Watch how a viper strikes. The body rears up and is darts out hence biu ,dart . This is done in the normal shoulder width stance. It requires the training and use of the spine as well as the training of the pelvic and abdominal area. Yip tried to simply this down to elbow energy. Look at an example of wong shuen lung doing chi sau to get the idea. The other component is Yi or mind intention. Tsui tsin Tin is the only Yip student that is well known that combines the 3 as a matter of basic practice although no doubt others do it but don't teach it to everyone.

This is not meant to be a specific how too and is just a general description.

Hope this helps

#413328 - 01/04/09 02:43 PM Re: wing chun punches [Re: donchisau]
ShikataGaNai Offline

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
I left Chicago a couple months ago and am back in the Pacific Northwest (and much happier for it.)

Don - your descriptions of the 8 punches are interesting, especially in that Ip Man only taught one or two ways...
I'm currently training at an MMA gym but still keeping up on my wing chun practice. The funny thing is, all the punches in MT and boxing work with WC principles, the same as the straight punch. That one seems like a big 'duh' to me, but for some reason it vexes millions of kung fu people.
The secret really is there's no secret, I guess

#413329 - 01/05/09 02:23 PM Re: wing chun punches [Re: ShikataGaNai]
donchisau Offline

Registered: 11/04/06
Posts: 73
You got it Shikata the secret really is don't give up your common sense. Yip made changes to keep things simple and he let everyone come to their own conclusions hence so many different ways of doing things.

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