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#413251 - 05/14/09 09:32 AM Re: Matsumura Seito Kata and Kumite Clip [Re: duanew]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA

I assume you have videos of you based on your response-now are these fights involving punching and kicking or just grappling?
Did you post any where you lost?

Yes and Yes. Search function is your friend.
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

#413252 - 05/14/09 01:56 PM Re: Matsumura Seito Kata and Kumite Clip [Re: duanew]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA

Any videos of you actually fighting or do you just beat up 50 pound bags?


Interesting article, but I am not sure why you are so sensitive about Fred Ettish. What he went through what many TMA guys did, just not as publicly as he did. The funny thing is I believe Johnny Rhodes was primarily a karate guy who had done a lot point fighting as well as some kickboxing, where Fred did not seem to respect point fighting at all. It seems like Fred's experience was a lot like an SD one, where he was not ready to do what he was called to do and froze up. It happens to a lot of people. But it is something that he will probably never live down, unless there are more Machidas in the woodwork willing to put their karate training(among other training) to the test. Could Fred have done better, who knows? They say that if you hit a BJJ black belt he becomes a brown, hit him again then he becomes a purple, etc. I think Bader proved this on last season's TUF finale by destroying a BJJ world champ. I guess the same can be said of karate. For me the interesting thing would be exactly how did Ettish train before the UFC as opposed to his training after. His focus was on SD before, but after his experiences did he use a more sportive approach. Duane, do you know him? Could you shed some light on this?
Dulaney Dojo

#413253 - 05/14/09 07:34 PM Re: Matsumura Seito Kata and Kumite Clip [Re: medulanet]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
Matt and Duane,

you need to lighten up guys and cut out poking each other - my thanks.
Jim Neeter

#413254 - 05/16/09 11:43 AM Re: Matsumura Seito Kata and Kumite Clip [Re: shoshinkan]
OmegaMan Offline
Banned Bryan.........

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 1
I started training in combat sports and martial arts in grade school. I had the pleasure of being introduced to Shorin Ryu in Asia. I didn't train for more than a few years, but it was even more important to my development as a martial artist than the judo and boxing I learned as a kid.

I began to search for a school stateside after a few years hiatus. There was nothing remotely similar to the training I had overseas. Karate-wise at least. I eventually started working out with Shuri ryu, Shito Ryu and Matsubayashi guys at a local dojo. Through them I learned of a high ranking Matsumura Seito instructor who would teach monthly seminars at their dojo. I already knew many, many MMA types. I had even trained in BJJ. I saw Fred Ettish in the UFC. I knew that the style they showed on the screen under him was "Matsumura Orthodox Shorin Kenpo." I knew that this sensei taught "Matsumura Seito Shorin Ryu."

I knew a fighter vs. an athlete vs. a martial artist. I was well acquainted with few who were all three. Lindsey Sensei is one such person. I never hesitated to learn what he was willing to impart. For the first time karate made complete sense to me, and I enjoyed kata over sparring! I can say that some years later, after keeping up with my cross-training, I continued to train with this man. I have never, and I mean never, trained or seen anyone like Ron Lindsey Sensei when it came to applying true karate. If you are a karate-ka and get a chance to train with him don't miss out. Do it.

I trained with Carlos Elias, aka Professor Caique, a very high ranking BJJ black belt. I trained with other well known and accomplished martial artists. Much respect to them and they could wipe the floor with me, but Lindsey and his brand of Seito is real. REAL GOOD. Real Dangerous. NOT schoolboy karate in any way. Not diluted by any means. In fact it's viscosity may have been increased after decades of physical and mental diligence on Lindsey's part! He is a teacher of Ettish's teacher, Greg Ohl. He is a high rank in that brand of Seito, the Kenpo offshoot, too. He was Kuda's worldwide organizational president. He would often speak of the differences in Seito subsets. He would show us the differences in strategy and waza. He spoke highly of Kenpo, but only as a more modernized approach of the older Seito Jutsu. It had intent, but more "drift" too, so the intent may have been altered in some way.

Still props to Ettish for trying to show and prove. I never felt bad about telling my MMA associates that I learned a system similar to Fred's. I know I can hold my own, so that validates it for me. I did not feel that any system or instructor I trained with was not top shelf. I always shop around and look for substance as opposed to flash or mediocrity disguised as more. It takes patience and research. I never wondered for more than a minute about my karate or its applicability. I'll show a fool in a NY minute that a spearhand works (in the right situation).

But then again we all have our flow, so maybe I got lucky in that I KNEW that the Matsumura Seito Shorin Ryu Karate Jutsu I and others learned from Lindsey was for real. The same goes for the other instructors and styles I've been exposed to. For the first few UFCs, maybe the Seito that Ettish knew was inadequate. I don't know. He definitely was NOT relaxed which is a crucial part of the evolution to black belt. For other practitioners, even those learning directly from Lindsey, maybe they feel it is not enough for their wants either. But for me- it works pretty well for all intents and purposes.

Look at Rhodes. He was a Shorinji Ryu stylist. Yet he fought like a Toughman contestant. He chose the "sente" option, which is a core principle of Matsumura Seito. Initiating action is a sound strategy for jutsu, even if it's a "-Do" taboo. Reaction is almost always slower. The guy wasn't skilled, but he probably knew a bit about brawling. I have been less than impressed by many other Seito guys and gals and their interpretations of the Seito which was taught to them. I can say the same about most martial arts systems and schools I've seen stateside and overseas.

But aren't most capable of just so much, even if it is much more than they originally came to the party with?

Some can do martial arts. Some sport. Some can fight for real. Knowing the first two doesn't mean you will win in real life-or-death. It doesn't mean that a street fighter will win in full contact sparring or a match against a TMA, MMA guy or ring fighter. You get where I'm going. How many of you have the triumvirate? I helped to stir this "my karate is purer than your karate" argument years ago. Now I realize that even the supposed "pure" karate is only as "pure" as the filters and receptacles.

I apologize for ever creating any animosity towards me or others. I was just trying to defend what I felt was good and real in a world of plastic. I know that a lot of what I spouted came true and now people are going back to the original intent, whether or not I helped kick-start "the real". History will vindicate those like me.

That said to fight for the sake of fighting is idiotic, but we all gotta make some scratch somehow. Just be careful of pursuing glory, fame, titles and money at the sake of your long-term health. Develop your foresight. Plan for longevity. This is the true lesson of all good karate styles.

Now I will be banned again for using a different screen name, or for being an accomplished TROLL , but at least I made my peace. Isn't it much funner with a cat like me around to rile the savages up?

Peace, again...

Edited by OmegaMan (05/16/09 11:47 AM)

#413255 - 05/16/09 03:04 PM Re: Matsumura Seito Kata and Kumite Clip [Re: OmegaMan]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
Hey Bryan,

yes indeed you are banned again, feel free to e-mail me if you wish to discuss further if you re-sign in under a different name im guessing you will get this message.

I will leave your post on the board for a little while as it is kind of interesting and fairly relavent.
Jim Neeter

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