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#413231 - 02/12/09 07:26 AM Re: Matsumura Seito Kata and Kumite Clip [Re: Olderman]
duanew Offline
Member

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 326
Loc: MN
Lindsey, Chandler and Sandoval will happily do that for you. Going back to the original video and after the explanations of the kata...While it is called Matsumura Seito I don't recall that Soken taught Tomari kata like seisan, ananku or wansu those were Kise's addition. As far as I know there is no cat stance in the style either as demonstrated by the video. Also the tapes of Soken that I have show the kata being done much differently which accounts for my not recognizing them on the video.
So while elements of Matsumura Seito may be there I don't believe it is an accurate depiction of it-at least not what I know of it.

Duane

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#413232 - 02/13/09 06:00 AM Re: Matsumura Seito Kata and Kumite Clip [Re: duanew]
Olderman Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 51
Quote:

Lindsey, Chandler and Sandoval will happily do that for you.


Duane




Hi. I dont realy want to get to involved with an original
lineage discussion as such.
But I think it would be interesting if a video was posted and then explained in detail.
Like all the spit, sink rise etc and why they done and the applications?
Ditto with the other video that was posted?


Olderman

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#413233 - 02/20/09 03:48 PM Re: Matsumura Seito Kata and Kumite Clip [Re: Hakutsuru]
imperial_crane Offline
Member

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Maryland, USA
Hi Hakutsuru,

I thought you said in an earlier reply that you study Matsumura Seito. But now you said Okinawa White Crane. I am confused. I don't remember Shorinji and Matsumura Seito as being the same style. Because you mentioned Shorinji Sanchin kata it also has me confused.

Just wondering,

Paul
_________________________
Paul S.
Imperial Crane Martial Arts
Maryland, USA

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#413234 - 02/21/09 08:53 AM Re: Matsumura Seito Kata and Kumite Clip [Re: imperial_crane]
duanew Offline
Member

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 326
Loc: MN
It is my understanding that in the 70's Kise was teaching Shorinji and Seito. Some of those Shorinji students believed they were learning Seito-hence the cat stances and Tomari kata.

Duane

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#413235 - 02/27/09 05:13 PM Re: Matsumura Seito Kata and Kumite Clip [Re: duanew]
Hakutsuru Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 12
Sorry if this is late, been busy at work. Also sorry for any confusion.

I train with Mr Lindsey. I hold rank in both Matsumura Seito, and Hakutsuru White Crane. Those aren't the full Okinawan names, if you really want them I can try to dig them up. I was never good at remembering terms. But the point is, those are 2 separate styles Mr Lindsey teaches. While studying Shorin Ryu, he also studied and researched Okinawan White Crane. He has (along with others, some of which were already mentioned) collected a lot of crane kata from different sources. We have 2 kata called Matsumura Hakutsuru (Sho and Dai) and I think those are the 2 which came from soken through nabe. As for a secret family kata, I know what you're talking about, but the only part of the name I can remember is machimura. That kata is considered Matsumura Seito, not White crane. There are a lot of crane elements in it, but then again, there are a lot of crane elements on most of our kata the way we do them. Mr Lindsey has done videos of some kata with explanations, but I don't know where they are and if they are currently for sale, I would be surprised.

I'm going to stop typing now because I just remembered there is a bio on Mr Lindsey at : http://www.oldfightingarts.com/AboutSensei.html

This website is maintained by one of his students. I don't remember who wrote this bio, but I know Mr Lindsey has seen it and if there were any glaring inaccuracies he would have had them corrected.

Here's an excerpt that's relevant to the question that was asked about where Okinawan White Crane came from:

In the 1980ís, Sensei Lindsey began extensive research on Fukein Chinese and Okinawan White Crane Karate styles and systems. Eventually this research led Sensei Lindsey to Grandmaster Takaya Yabiku. Sensei Yabiku had been a student of Hohan Soken for about 20 years and had researched the White Crane Styles of Okinawa in great depth.


-h

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#413236 - 02/27/09 05:30 PM Re: Matsumura Seito Kata and Kumite Clip [Re: Hakutsuru]
duanew Offline
Member

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 326
Loc: MN
Please tell Mr. Lindsey I said hello.

Duane Wolfe

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#413237 - 03/02/09 03:03 PM Re: Matsumura Seito Kata and Kumite Clip [Re: Hakutsuru]
imperial_crane Offline
Member

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Maryland, USA
Hi Hakutsuru,

Since you originally brought up this topic I thought I would add some of my own thoughts.

Thanks for the information sorta...who are these masters Lindsey sensei trained with (besides Yabiku sensei)? Where did Lindsey get his White Crane training? Taking kata, techniques from various sources does not constitute a system on White Crane. I think it would be Chinese white crane...don't you think?

By the way Yabiku sensei has had some shady training history when it came to Soken sensei. I have been led to believe (from very good sources) that Yabiku sensei was and is not teaching the white crane Soken sensei taught. What are your thoughts?

Just so you know these are my opinions, no need to bash me for my thoughts if anyone is considering it. This is a discussion forum if I remember correctly.

Thanks for your reply.
_________________________
Paul S.
Imperial Crane Martial Arts
Maryland, USA

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#413238 - 03/06/09 04:03 PM Re: Matsumura Seito Kata and Kumite Clip [Re: Hakutsuru]
atemi2 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1
Loc: tx
hi i like the clip, but on another subject anyone here knows of a great traditional dojo in the san antonio area

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#413239 - 03/27/09 12:15 PM Re: Matsumura Seito Kata and Kumite Clip [Re: atemi2]
RedRider Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 7
Quote:

hi i like the clip, but on another subject anyone here knows of a great traditional dojo in the san antonio area




Atemi2, I sent you a pm about a dojo in the NW SA area. The sensei was a student of Fuse Kise for about 5 years while his dad was stationed in Okinawa. He's a really nice guy and has a very nice/large dojo.

-rl

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#413240 - 03/27/09 12:38 PM Re: Matsumura Seito Kata and Kumite Clip [Re: duanew]
RedRider Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 7
Quote:

Please tell Mr. Lindsey I said hello.

Duane Wolfe




Mr. Lindsey says hi to you. He said to tell you that his trip up to teach a seminar for you and your group was one of the best experiences he's had.

I pm you some more information.

-rl

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