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#411745 - 11/14/08 05:27 PM Joint Locks
Rayson Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/28/07
Posts: 19
Loc: Louisiana, United States
Recently we did randori in my Jujitsu class. My sensei told me I attempt nage waza too much and should practice joint locks too. The thought of trying to catch someone's arm while they are trying to hurt me doesn't seem too practical to me. Do you think wrist/elbow locks are practical for self defense?

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#411746 - 11/14/08 06:36 PM Re: Joint Locks [Re: Rayson]
janxspirit Offline
Member

Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 132
Quote:

Recently we did randori in my Jujitsu class. My sensei told me I attempt nage waza too much and should practice joint locks too. The thought of trying to catch someone's arm while they are trying to hurt me doesn't seem too practical to me. Do you think wrist/elbow locks are practical for self defense?




Grabbing someone's arm isn't so hard - the better you get at the clinch the better you are grabbing someone's arm.

Joint locks work better when performed on the ground: Position before submission.
_________________________
St. Louis MMA Boxing Grappling

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#411747 - 11/15/08 12:38 PM Re: Joint Locks [Re: Rayson]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Quote:

Do you think wrist/elbow locks are practical for self defense?




It depends. I hate to try locks while standing, because I don't think you have enough control over your opponent's body to finish it. However, you can use joint locks to take your opponent to the ground where you can finish the lock or transition into a dominant position. An easy example is Waki-gatame, where you get the lock first then use it to drag your opponent to the ground. From there you can keep applying the lock, or take the back.

Standing locks do work sometimes, but in my opinion their rate of success is not high enough for you to consider them a go-to tactic. Better to throw your opponent or hit him, then worry about submissions when your in newaza.

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#411748 - 11/17/08 10:08 AM Re: Joint Locks [Re: Supremor]
BulldogTKD Offline
Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 294
Standing joint locks work great but you should remember that joint locks are only temporary. If you apply a joint lock while standing use it to cause pain and to break the balance of you opponent. Then transition into a sweep or throw.

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#411749 - 11/17/08 12:30 PM Re: Joint Locks [Re: BulldogTKD]
everyone Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/02/07
Posts: 597
Loc: USA
Catching an incoming strike is not easy. It has to be a commited attack, not a jab. There are tricks to timing and reading your opponents telegraphs.

Make sure to move so you are not in the path of the strike should you miss the grab. Try to make contact with their arm as close to their body as possible. The closer it is to their core, the slower and smaller the movement (you probably will not be able to catch their wrist). Once you make contact, file the strike off course as you slide your hand into place for the joint lock.

Another method is to avoid the strike and follow your opponents arm as it retreats. This is a good method because you are not having to worry about a blow coming in when attempting the joint lock. Also, the opponents arm will be slowing to a stop as he retreats it. Be careful of his other arm however.

Do not worry too much about the effectiveness at this point in your training. You are learning body structure and gross movements. Those joint locks that seem impractical now will be more refined and several applications will be reveiled to you with practice and experience.

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#411750 - 11/17/08 03:24 PM Re: Joint Locks [Re: everyone]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
In order for standing jointlocks to work against a punch, your opponent has to be of MUCH lesser skill than you, and not a very good striker. Catching the punch of a well trained striker is unlikely.

--Chris
_________________________
"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."
--Basho

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#411751 - 11/17/08 06:42 PM Re: Joint Locks [Re: Ames]
BulldogTKD Offline
Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 294
Quote:

In order for standing jointlocks to work against a punch, your opponent has to be of MUCH lesser skill than you, and not a very good striker. Catching the punch of a well trained striker is unlikely.

--Chris




How about not waiting to be attacked? Who says I have to stand there and let someone swing first! Grab a hand or arm first. Then do your thang.

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#411752 - 11/17/08 07:08 PM Re: Joint Locks [Re: BulldogTKD]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Quote:


How about not waiting to be attacked? Who says I have to stand there and let someone swing first! Grab a hand or arm first. Then do your thang.




A nice idea, but in my experience it is not the best strategy. When I am trying to grapple with someone striking me, I don't want to waste my time with arms and hands, because they don't give me sufficient control of the attacker's body. Instead, I want to clinch up with him straight away, and either drop for a single/double leg or work a body lock into a throw. Those are my two goals as soon as I enter grappling range, because they offer the most safety from getting hit, and the most control over your opponent.

Grabbing arms works if you are extremely quick and the opponent is caught completely unaware, but in grappling I have hardly ever seen one work- what I have seen is guys reaching for arms and getting thrown with seoi-nages or harai-goshis. And what if you don't manage to grab the arm because the guy has decent boxing skills? You will get hit and you will be at such a range that the strikes hurt. Instead, by controlling the body you are making yourself safe, and immediately imposing a grappling match on your opponent, whether he likes it or not.

Of course, I have seen standing arm locks work, but not with a high percentage. The question is what you want to use in self defense, a high percentage move, or a low percentage one. I know where my preference lies!

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#411753 - 11/18/08 04:12 AM Re: Joint Locks [Re: BulldogTKD]
NewJitsu Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 130
Loc: Midlands, UK





How about not waiting to be attacked? Who says I have to stand there and let someone swing first! Grab a hand or arm first. Then do your thang.




I wouldn't advise it! Against a weak, unskilled opponent OK - but a weak, unskilled opponent probably wouldn;t be challenging you in the 1st place. If you are fast and strong maybe you could lock an arm but they could easily be using their free hand to repeatedly hit you in the mush.

And I learnt that lesson the hard way! Which is why after that I only use locks on the ground.

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#411754 - 11/18/08 08:13 AM Re: Joint Locks [Re: NewJitsu]
BulldogTKD Offline
Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 294
Quote:






How about not waiting to be attacked? Who says I have to stand there and let someone swing first! Grab a hand or arm first. Then do your thang.




I wouldn't advise it! Against a weak, unskilled opponent OK - but a weak, unskilled opponent probably wouldn;t be challenging you in the 1st place. If you are fast and strong maybe you could lock an arm but they could easily be using their free hand to repeatedly hit you in the mush.

And I learnt that lesson the hard way! Which is why after that I only use locks on the ground.




Skilled, unskilled, you must move off line, unbalance and use the proper technique. Use the right tool for the job. If you cann't pull off a standing lock don't try it.

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