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#411687 - 11/15/08 09:55 PM Re: UN warns of brown cloud threat [Re: bcihak]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Jeez, all this BS. Shame on you, Bill, for being a knee-jerk emotionally driven person who refuses to see facts. Let me real quick burst some bubbles for you.

Solomen and the list of doubters? Whatever, bro. There were more believers than doubters, wasn't there? Case closed. Next.

Ian Murray. He makes some valid points in his list of 25, but also some points that have been refuted in my previous link. Read for yourself. Some of his points are just laughable. Coral has been around a long time, so it will live on? BUT IT ISN'T. THAT'S THE POINT. Next.

Avery, Singer, and The Heartland Institute? Are you facking joking? Why not mention Seitz and Christy, too. Politically motivated in the extreme:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Heartland_Institute

"The Heartland Institute, according to the Institute's web site, is a nonprofit organization "to discover and promote free-market solutions to social and economic problems".[1] Heartland campaigns against what it refers to as "junk science"; supports "common-sense environmentalism", such as opposition to the the Kyoto protocol aimed at countering global warming and promoting genetically engineered crops and products; it supports the privatization of public services; it opposes tobacco control measure such as tobacco tax increases and denies the health effects of second-hand smoke; it supports the introduction of school vouchers;, and it promotes the deregulation of health care insurance. Heartland also hosts PolicyBot, which it refers to as the "Internet's most extensive clearing-house for the work of free-market think tanks". The database contains 22,000 documents from 350 U.S. right-wing think tanks and advocacy groups.[2]

In March 2008 the Heartland Institute hosted what was referred to as The 2008 International Conference on Climate Change.[3]

The institute was founded in 1984 by David H. Padden and Joseph L. Bast.
"

Not even in the same galaxy as an multi-national, peer-reviewed, long term study like the IPCC report.

PLEASE STOP BELIEVING EVERYTHING YOU SEE ON FOX NEWS. My God, how many times do I have to say that?
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#411688 - 11/15/08 10:35 PM Re: UN warns of brown cloud threat [Re: MattJ]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
some more detailed info and satelite pics...from NASA:
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/earthandsun/brown_cloud.html

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#411689 - 11/15/08 11:20 PM Re: UN warns of brown cloud threat [Re: bcihak]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

As far as the overpopulation silliness goes, we can pack everyone on earth into the state of texas and have the same population density as New York city.




Good grief, if this is your criteria for overpopulation, then you are painfully stupid. Its got nothing to do with population density, its about the balance of requirements against the resources to sustain them, combined with the resultant dmage to bio-diversity that ensues when the balance is lost. That is the criteria used in population management, as controlled by man, for every species on earth, apart from man himself. That is a blind spot created by human superiority complex, further clouded by religious dogma, neither of which I am bound by. Dont like it? tough.

Quote:

If you'll notice as well, as societies become industrialized and wealthy the population starts to slow.




But not in direct proportion to increase in life expectancy, and that is why you still get population growth, not sustainance.

Quote:

I also have to say you are a bit of an elitist Cord for placing the judgement on how others make a living.




Please show me where I removed myself from the argument? I know I am a drain on the resources of the earth, it plays a pivotal part in my decision not to breed. My conviction sees my family name die with me- aside from spouting conflicting extremist politics, what have you done to live by your convictions?

Quote:

If you notice, the guys on your side started the name calling first and you yourself have called for killing innocent people because they don't have intrinsic value.




I have merely pointed out that we do not apply population management to ourselves, thus making our stance hypocritical. As for 'intrinsic value' I am not sure any of us have such a thing- we exist because our parents f*cked and now we have to muddle through as best we can. The truth is that the vast majority of humans make little or no individual positive impact on the world, anymore than one bee or ant stands out from another. Like any social creature, we rely on the masses to make an impact, and our history shows that, in the context of the planets well being, that impact has been negative.

Just as the dinsoaurs dominated their environment, so have we, and to think that Nature will not restore balance in the same way, to believe that we are above the natural order of the story of this rock floating in space, is just more human folly.

Quote:

Shame on you Cord, even if you are a moderator.
Bill




Boo hoo. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=p86BPM1GV8M


Edited by Cord (11/15/08 11:42 PM)
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#411690 - 11/16/08 12:04 AM Re: UN warns of brown cloud threat [Re: Cord]
bcihak Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 298
Loc: Illinois
What is it with you guys. Can't you argue without swearing or name calling. Cord, since you are so concerned with resource management why don't you take the obvious step that you advocate for so many others and manage yourself so that others may use the resources wasted on you. I like the Heartland Institute. It's a great resource for cutting through the lies of the global warming and overpopulation coolade drinkers. Nasa? It's not as if they could possibly use global warming as an excuse to increase their budget, especially in the light of tight budgets with tax increases on the way. Thanks Cord, you have done more to demonstrate the ignorance and mean spiritedness of your side than I could have done. Try reading Mark Steyn, you may learn something. Oh, since this is a martial arts site try that whole empty your cup concept, it will aid in your finally finding some wisdom to go with your education. As far as peer reviews go, how good is a peer reviewed article when most of the people doing it are either fellow believers or looking to push an agenda that hurts industrialized nations and helps transfer wealth to their favorite third world charity cases. They also shut down any attempts to disagree with them by getting people fired or keeping them from getting tenure. To the casual reader, please look into these topics. Universities are havens for political correctness that is aimed at silencing free thought and free speech. Goodnight.


Edited by bcihak (11/16/08 12:13 AM)

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#411691 - 11/16/08 12:21 AM Re: UN warns of brown cloud threat [Re: bcihak]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

Cord, since you are so concerned with resource management why don't you take the obvious step that you advocate for so many others and manage yourself so that others may use the resources wasted on you.




I advocate population control through management of birth rate, much as China has at least attempted. To that end, I have managed myself- crikey, you should really try reading what people post as opposed to just thinking about your next post

I neither swore at you, nor called you any names. Did you watch the link at the end of my post? I come at things from a different perspective than you, I consider it more enlightened, but then I would, as it is mine.

Nice of you to acknowledge that I am educated. The problem with jumping up and down telling people to read another persons work, is that it only highlights your own acknowledgement that you are unable to present your beliefs for yourself.
I prefer never to buy into anyone elses view of life wholesale, as I am confident enough to have my own. This also leaves you wonderfully un-invested in political and religious ideology, allowing you to find truth whatever the source.
This tends to be a less foolish way of doing things than spouting on about coolaid and accusing people of advocating genocide.

Anyway, good luck plotting against Obama, or your local University, or whatever else it is you have lined up for the day, it certainly has been interesting reading your views.


Edited by Cord (11/16/08 12:45 AM)
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#411692 - 11/16/08 09:41 AM Re: UN warns of brown cloud threat [Re: bcihak]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

What is it with you guys. Can't you argue without swearing or name calling.




I sincerely apologize for that. When I see people make non-rational, emotional judgements, it tends to bring out the same in me. Apologies.

Quote:

Cord, since you are so concerned with resource management why don't you take the obvious step that you advocate for so many others and manage yourself so that others may use the resources wasted on you.




Just like this. Did you just tell Cord to kill himself? This is exactly what I'm talking about. Your argument lacks any substance, so you take a very mean-spirited, emotional line of response.

Quote:

I like the Heartland Institute.




Again, the emotion with no objectivity. You like them, so they must be right. FYI, I don't like the UN, but the scope and objectivity of the IPCC report is impossible to ignore to any rational mind. There were around 100 different country's scientists that participated, so the chance of it being skewed one way or another is pretty slim. Especially compared to........

Quote:

It's a great resource for cutting through the lies of the global warming and overpopulation coolade drinkers.




As I mentioned, the Heartland Institute is a hardcore, far-right, idealogically driven organization that regards real science the way vampires regard mirrors.

Quote:

Nasa? It's not as if they could possibly use global warming as an excuse to increase their budget, especially in the light of tight budgets with tax increases on the way.




This is a ridiculous strawman argument. Nowhere has ANYONE mentioned NASA. What is your point here? Nevermind - I don't care.

Quote:

Thanks Cord, you have done more to demonstrate the ignorance and mean spiritedness of your side than I could have done. Try reading Mark Steyn, you may learn something.




What Cord will learn about Mark Steyn is that Steyn is a far-right crank who thought that Obama was a muslim (wrong), justified the Serbian ethnic cleansing (scary), and regularly appears on the Rush Limbaugh (drug-addicted far-right hypocrite) show. Nuff said.

Quote:

Oh, since this is a martial arts site try that whole empty your cup concept, it will aid in your finally finding some wisdom to go with your education.




This is simply sad or funny, but certainly ironic.

Quote:

As far as peer reviews go, how good is a peer reviewed article when most of the people doing it are either fellow believers or looking to push an agenda that hurts industrialized nations and helps transfer wealth to their favorite third world charity cases.




1000 scientists from 100 countries over 10 years. You are certain they ALL had the same motivation to politically skew the results?

Quote:

They also shut down any attempts to disagree with them by getting people fired or keeping them from getting tenure. To the casual reader, please look into these topics. Universities are havens for political correctness that is aimed at silencing free thought and free speech. Goodnight.




Gabble.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#411693 - 11/16/08 10:58 AM Re: UN warns of brown cloud threat [Re: Cord]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

I advocate population control through management of birth rate, much as China has at least attempted.




While I understand your reasoning, it does pose a rather large problem if you control population growth.

The economic and social organizations in the market economy require a certain amount of growth to sustain the society. Currently Europe is around 1.4 children per household, but in order to sustain your economy you need to be at around 2.2 (these numbers are from memory so excuse me if they are not spot on). The point being if you do not sustain growth you will not be able to fund your society and collapse of the economy and eventually the government is the endgame if it continues.

The US is at around 2, but because of immigration our population is still on track (explain that to some folks, that the immigrants are saving the nation..LOL)

Japan is in peril, they are around 1.1, and they do not encourage immigration, in fact it is very difficult to even work in Japan for a long period of time...so they are in big trouble.

That does not address the issue of resources and the "foot print" left by humans on the planet. Those things are quite addressable, except there is such intense opposition from certain groups (for reasons I have yet to grasp).

But the answer from what I understand is not to have more kids, but to redistribute the people we already have. So many nations have populations they cannot support, and we have nations in need of growth...ironic isn't it?
_________________________
Undefeated in all of Asia!

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#411694 - 11/16/08 11:05 AM Re: UN warns of brown cloud threat [Re: Kimo2007]
bcihak Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 298
Loc: Illinois
Kimo2007, the population growth figures you are using are the main point of Mark Steyn's book America Alone. He goes into great detail about the declining population of western industrialized nations and their effect on the war on terrorism. You can also catch him every thursday on the Hugh Hewitt radio show so you can see for yourself the sort of person he actually is. His sense of humor is great and he explains things really well.
Bill

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#411695 - 11/16/08 11:40 AM Re: UN warns of brown cloud threat [Re: bcihak]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Sorry Bill,

I cannot trust anything that man has to say. He is so clearly a partisan hack and among the group of people who have destroyed political discourse in this country. He may have latched on to a report on population, but you can be sure he only embraced it's findings because it served his ends.

You have to understand that if you continue to reference these people, that no one will take you seriously, because these are not serious men. The use a specific formula, to appeal to a specific base. You can't get more unreliable information then that.

These are the people who coined the phrase "real Americans" as if all the other Americans weren't really Americans, which demonstrates a complete lack of comprehension of what America is.

Seems to me you have been "Hannitized" but I hear they make a cream for that.
_________________________
Undefeated in all of Asia!

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#411696 - 11/16/08 01:14 PM Re: UN warns of brown cloud threat [Re: Kimo2007]
bcihak Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 298
Loc: Illinois
Kimo2007 I find that individuals on your side have destroyed reasonable debate in this country on a variety of topics:

MattJ, called me a crack pot, called educated knowlegeable dissenters corporate whores(first, I responded in kind), swore on an open site 3 times and called my reasoned discussion knee-jerk.

Cord, Swore twice on an open site, called people blobs of flesh, called for the culling of these blobs of flesh(murder)because they were unproductive, complemented china's policy of one child per couple.

Kimo2007, you declared that I was not entitled to an opinion, Insinuated that because I doubt the truth of global warming I would also deny the holocaust.

It would seem to me that you guys are intolerant of debate and scientific inquiry that goes against your belief systems and you resort to name calling right out of the box to silence that debate. Everyone I mention by name with the material they have brought to light is either a corporate whore, or a right wing hack. So much for polite debate. Here are a couple more right wing hacks for you to attack:
Michael Crichton, Global Warming questioner.
**Vaclav Klaus the president of the Czech republic (article online at Ft.com June 13 2007 about the dangers of the modern Environmental movement and its threat to freedom).
The people who question global warming science simply seek to know the truth and do not attempt to silence the various research and opinions out there. The believers in global warming have a strong tendency to just claim that the debate is over, give up your cash and your freedom to politicians, bureacrats and journalists. Try to open your minds or at least be more civil in your arguments.
Well, its the middle of November and the snow is starting to sprinkle here in the northern part of the U.S. We are entering a period of global cooling like the 1970's so there will be colder temps. and more snow. It has been fun arguing with you guys, have a nice week.


Edited by bcihak (11/16/08 01:46 PM)

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