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#411622 - 11/17/08 02:22 AM Re: Couture vs. Lesnar SPOILER [Re: Kravinatrix]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

If there was a super weight division created who else would be in it?
Why does another division need to be created is there not a 265 limit which Brock made on weigh in?
Brock did well, you guys need to accept he is better.
I don't care who he fights next Nog would be the better fight but i would love to see Brock take revenge on Mir. How long is it to UFC92 ? were a good deal of the way through ultimate fighter 8 so it can't be that long right?




There is NO WAY Brock is 'better' than Randy. He won on pure size and minimal skill.

You could take an athletic musclebound 210lber from the street, train him for a few months, and have him wipe the floor with Urijah Faber(145lbs). It's the same thing.

I've always said that if a smaller guy wants to beat a bigger guy his skills better be more than enough to make up the size difference.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#411623 - 11/17/08 02:31 AM Re: Couture vs. Lesnar SPOILER [Re: BrianS]
Joe Jutsu Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/09/03
Posts: 575
Quote:


There is NO WAY Brock is 'better' than Randy. He won on pure size and minimal skill.

You could take an athletic musclebound 210lber from the street, train him for a few months, and have him wipe the floor with Urijah Faber(145lbs). It's the same thing.

I've always said that if a smaller guy wants to beat a bigger guy his skills better be more than enough to make up the size difference.




Brilliantly put Brian. Another way I would phrase the whole issue is, "who would you rather train under?" Performance is different from coaching, but you get my drift.

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#411624 - 11/17/08 06:59 AM Re: Couture vs. Lesnar SPOILER [Re: BrianS]
Kravinatrix Offline
Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 52
Loc: ESSEX
He is a better fighter then Randy, i never said more skilled i said better. Hes better beacuse he beat him and yes thats due to him being alot bigger. His size makes him a better fighter, better and more skilled are two different things. Randy should be in light heavyweight division instead really. Lesnar played by the rules and was able to cut weight and make it into the division, until there is a super-heavyweight division created then Lesnar has a right to be where he is.

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#411625 - 11/18/08 07:43 AM Re: Couture vs. Lesnar SPOILER [Re: Kravinatrix]
NewJitsu Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 130
Loc: Midlands, UK
So will Akebono and Butterbean have to go into Super Super Super Heavyweight...?!

Size of course plays a part but it didn't stop Mir beating Lesnar. I'm a big Couture fan but hats off to Lesnar. He won the fight but he's not going to win this argument, no matter what; he loses to Mir - we blame his inexperience. He wins against Couture - we say it's thanks to his size... With his pro wrestling background, unfortunately he's going to annoy many MMA purists - big guy coming in and winning the belt in a few months.

He beat Couture fair and square. Couture admitted it, we have to as well.

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#411626 - 11/18/08 08:06 AM Re: Couture vs. Lesnar SPOILER [Re: NewJitsu]
Kravinatrix Offline
Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 52
Loc: ESSEX
Quote:

. He won the fight but he's not going to win this argument, no matter what; he loses to Mir - we blame his inexperience. He wins against Couture - we say it's thanks to his size... With his pro wrestling background, unfortunately he's going to annoy many MMA purists - big guy coming in and winning the belt in a few months.

He beat Couture fair and square. Couture admitted it, we have to as well.




Yeah exactly he beat coture within the rules, so he is a better fighter in the division. He won fairly, and i hope to see him further irritate these mma purists.
He kind of tried to humiliate Heath Herring, riding him like a horse lol.
Attributes don't count for everything, Brock got him with a good shot sending him down and was quick to capitalise on it with his hammers. If he had not been so strong it may not have knocked Randy down, but would have had some effect. Brock was good enough to catch Randy with that crucial shot, Randy was not good enough to avoid it.

As for Randy controlling him against the cage, it did not really have much affect on brock and he was happy to play that way and get in his Knee's. Brock is a bug guy he may have allowed Randy to do this so he could pace himself durring the match and not wrestle back so much and play defense against the cage. After all he is a huge guy and is likely to have realised Randy would attempt to tire him out and drag the match on.

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#411627 - 11/18/08 08:20 AM Re: Couture vs. Lesnar SPOILER [Re: NewJitsu]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

he loses to Mir - we blame his inexperience. He wins against Couture - we say it's thanks to his size




Those are both accurate assessments.

Quote:

He beat Couture fair and square. Couture admitted it, we have to as well.




Not disagreeing, although without his 55lb weight advantage, it likely would have gone Couture's way.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#411628 - 11/18/08 09:34 AM Re: Couture vs. Lesnar SPOILER [Re: MattJ]
NewJitsu Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 130
Loc: Midlands, UK
Quote:



Not disagreeing, although without his 55lb weight advantage, it likely would have gone Couture's way.




Ifs and buts though... I've lost count how many times I've seen bigger guys lose to smaller guys. Sure, Lesnar's build gives him a bloody good start but without his wrestling background, determination, dedication would he still have beaten Couture? I think it's a difficult argument to say, 'Oh, but he was bigger than me.'

Couture is an idol, legend and American institution. And he's been beaten by an ex WWE champ. That's what seems to be grating to a lot of people. (That's me speaking as a Brit perhaps. Go, Bisping...!)

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#411629 - 11/18/08 10:48 AM Re: Couture vs. Lesnar SPOILER [Re: NewJitsu]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

Ifs and buts though... I've lost count how many times I've seen bigger guys lose to smaller guys. Sure, Lesnar's build gives him a bloody good start but without his wrestling background, determination, dedication would he still have beaten Couture? I think it's a difficult argument to say, 'Oh, but he was bigger than me.'





I think the point everyone is making is the Lesnar has enough skill, that his size becomes the determining factor.

Sure big guys lose all the time, but that's because the skill gap is so wide the smaller fighter can take them to church. Not the case here, Lesnar has skill, more then most guys his size.

To say Mir beat him, is a weak argument, Mir was getting his face caved in for most of the fight. Lesnar made a mistake, and Mir took advantage. Hat off to Mir, but if your only chance to win is if your opponent make a neophyte mistake?

How many fighters line up and think...Holy Cr@p I hope he does something stupid!

Lesnar won that fight, no question. But he still needs his size to tip the balance against the Mir's and Coutures of the world.
_________________________
Undefeated in all of Asia!

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#411630 - 11/18/08 10:55 AM Re: Couture vs. Lesnar SPOILER [Re: Kimo2007]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

To say Mir beat him, is a weak argument, Mir was getting his face caved in for most of the fight. Lesnar made a mistake, and Mir took advantage. Hat off to Mir, but if your only chance to win is if your opponent make a neophyte mistake?




*sound of buzzer*

Mir most certainly did not win because he was smaller or weaker. He won because he had more skill. A knee-bar is not like a left hook - you will not accidently/unintentionally knee-bar someone. That is a technical move that does not result from luck. Note the set-up that Frank had to do, to get it!
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#411631 - 11/18/08 11:25 AM Re: Couture vs. Lesnar SPOILER [Re: MattJ]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

*sound of buzzer*

Mir most certainly did not win because he was smaller or weaker. He won because he had more skill. A knee-bar is not like a left hook - you will not accidently/unintentionally knee-bar someone. That is a technical move that does not result from luck. Note the set-up that Frank had to do, to get it!




I think that is what I am saying. The "luck" was not that Mir got lucky in his technique, the Luck was Lesnar made some serious mistakes. He had Mir all but out, but couldn't finish due to his lack of experience. Hell I barely know the guy and I know he is wicked dangerous on his back! So why stand over him, trying to figure out what to do! Because Lesnar didn't know any better.

Mir did an awesome job, but he needed Lesnar to screw up to win, the beginning of that fight was like throwing darts at a tank.
_________________________
Undefeated in all of Asia!

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