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#411612 - 11/16/08 01:57 PM Re: Couture vs. Lesnar SPOILER [Re: Aesir]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
I was not happy with the outcome but that is what it is. As for Brock you have to give him props. He uses his knees very effectively and when he was on the ground he was trying to pin Randy's arm by sliding his knee up over it.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#411613 - 11/16/08 02:12 PM Re: Couture vs. Lesnar SPOILER [Re: Aesir]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

However Brock may have won this time because of his size there is nothing wrong with that and we should be happy that the sport is now attracting real beastly athletes.





The problem isn't that the sport is attracting beastly athletes. It's just that those "beasts" are being matched up with "humans". So long as the beasts are fighting other beasts of the same size, I don't think it's an issue. What happened last night however is just stupid, IMO.


Quote:


I can only see the attention Brock will bring to mma and the UFC as a good thing as long as he keeps improving his skills and doesn't soley rely on his size.





I think Lesnar is a legitimate athlete. However, the ONLY thing he has done so far is rely on his size. He's far outweighed all of his opponents so far. Even vs. Herring; you can look at the two and see how much bigger Lesnar was. I don't know of anyone close to that size currently signed with the UFC. As far as I'm aware, Bob Sapp is the only one who is close. Tim Silvia, who is huge, doesn't have anywhere near the muscle mass, and that's the main difference here, IMO.


Quote:


He caught Randy last night that took skill, he didn't catch Randy because he is a huge freak...





I disagree. If Lesnar had been anywhere close to Randy's size, Couture would have likely won that fight. It looked to me that Couture was doing as good a job as damn near anyone could possibly do against Lesnar. He controlled him from the clinch and he had good position on him a few times and couldn't get the man down.

Sure Lesnar has wrestling skill. But it wasn't skill that won him that fight. It was his sheer size.

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#411614 - 11/16/08 02:15 PM Re: Couture vs. Lesnar SPOILER [Re: Dereck]
Kravinatrix Offline
Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 52
Loc: ESSEX
If there was a super weight division created who else would be in it?
Why does another division need to be created is there not a 265 limit which Brock made on weigh in?
Brock did well, you guys need to accept he is better.
I don't care who he fights next Nog would be the better fight but i would love to see Brock take revenge on Mir. How long is it to UFC92 ? were a good deal of the way through ultimate fighter 8 so it can't be that long right?

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#411615 - 11/16/08 03:35 PM Re: Couture vs. Lesnar SPOILER [Re: Kravinatrix]
Dauragon c mikado Offline


Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 1246
Loc: Oxford, England
It's a shame that Randy lost this fight, he did great in the first round but just didn't tuck his head in enough when slipping the punch.
I wish Fedor gets a fair contract in the UFC and avenges Randy...

Anyway, we have yet to see how Lesnar performs against a striker, all his opponents so far have been grapplers, so naturally they try to clinch up with him and take him down or try to work from the guard only to find themselves on their back with some 'big hamhockers' making love to their face.
Another interesting thing about this fight is that this is only his fourth fight and he's been cut as a result of some minor exchanges. I think if a good enough striker can be found, Lesnar will look like a raw meat dinner.

What we have yet to see however is how Lesnar reacts to being on his back, if anyone in the UFC can get him there...
_________________________
The way of the warrior is a resolute acceptance of death. -Musashi

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#411616 - 11/16/08 04:17 PM Re: Couture vs. Lesnar SPOILER [Re: Dauragon c mikado]
Aesir Offline
Member

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 397
Loc: Croydon, UK
The fact that Brock caught Randy was not because he is huge it was because he saw an opening and capitalised on it. You can't go and say if you get smacked in the face that it was because the other guy was bigger than you, its because you didn't get out of the way in time.

Brock has trained to be as big as he is and he made weight, why should he not use his size? It is obviously an effective tool. Fighters already use there weight to pin guys down and help control guys on the ground in the clinch etc you can't say it is now unfair for Brock to do so because he is bigger than the other guys. Thats like telling chuck he can't punch hard against someone who doesn't hold knockout power, it's stupid.

I don't like his attitude or personality but he won, he made weight followed the rules and does have skill. Even if it is just using his weight advantage effectivly against others.

I would be more irked with Brock if he didn't show progressions in skill between his fights. He got caught by Mir because of ground inexperience.

Herring while not exactly a pedigree fighter (imo) still posed a significant threat to Brock having knockout power. Brock controlled him for the whole boring fight not slipping up with his ground game and getting too excited like in the fight with Mir.

Against Randy he remained calm and controlled himself and was pinning Randys arm down, controlling wrists, mounted Randy and then able to catch Randy and pound him out on the floor.

The guy is still green to the sport and noone wanted him to win becuase he is some huge WWE guy invading our sport. Lets be honest if he hadn't been in the WWE noone would slate him this much because he is a good wrestler and is basically a bigger, stronger, faster version of Randy when he first stepped into the octagon.

However you look at it he beat the champ therefore he is the better fighter at this weight class for now. Until Nog comes along anyway.

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#411617 - 11/16/08 04:24 PM Re: Couture vs. Lesnar SPOILER [Re: Kravinatrix]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

Why does another division need to be created is there not a 265 limit which Brock made on weigh in?
Brock did well, you guys need to accept he is better.




Whoa, whoa, whoa. Brock did well, Yes. Brock is better? NO. Brock did OK, and his gigantic size made up for the skill deficit he had with Randy. Let's be clear about that. Randy was handling Brock until Brock cracked him.

Again, this is not to slag Brock, who is a world-class athlete. But a 50-pound weight difference is simply too large for almost anyone to overcome. There should certainly be another weight class.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#411618 - 11/16/08 04:54 PM Re: Couture vs. Lesnar SPOILER [Re: Kimo2007]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Quote:

Lesnar is a different breed, once we begin to see more fighters with his pedigree who are also highly skilled...look out!




Its the whole could you beat Ray Lewis in a "fair fight" argument. Lesnar is an NFL caliber athlete. Incredible size, speed, strength, agility, etc. There is a point where "skill" is not enough to defeat attributes. Just as the MA world was brought down to earth regarding the effectiveness of grappling, it is coming down to earth again. The days of 170 lbs guys beating 290 lbs monsters is over.
_________________________
Dulaney Dojo

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#411619 - 11/16/08 05:24 PM Re: Couture vs. Lesnar SPOILER [Re: medulanet]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:


There is a point where "skill" is not enough to defeat attributes.





Agreed.


Quote:

The days of 170 lbs guys beating 290 lbs monsters is over.





It's BEEN over. Now, Couture needs to drop down to light-heavy if he's going to continue fighting. Now lets see if Lesnar can cut enough weight to make THAT class

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#411620 - 11/16/08 05:36 PM Re: Couture vs. Lesnar SPOILER [Re: JKogas]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Just saw the fight. Couture, for his size disadvantage, really gave Brock hell. Definitely a better fighter. But boy Brock is a killer. Those were some nasty knees. If he can avoid the submissions, I think he's got Noguiera but he does have some work to do. Bet we're gonna ssee an influx of pro wrestlers soon.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#411621 - 11/16/08 06:35 PM Re: Couture vs. Lesnar SPOILER [Re: Stormdragon]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

Bet we're gonna ssee an influx of pro wrestlers soon.





You just took the words out of my mouth. This could not have worked out better for Dana White. He's been wanting the pro wrestling fan base for a long time. This win will prove to be a big boost for White and Co.

Now he and MacMahon can team up, bring in Kane (7' 315lbs), Triple H, Big Show, etc. and clean up!

Before long, we'll have REAL cage matches! I can't wait.





-John

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