FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 20 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
BUJU, Pilsungkarate, ALF, old1, Leonar
22928 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Ronin1966 3
futsaowingchun 2
ergees 2
GojuRyuboy13 2
AndyLA 1
October
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
New Topics
I spy kata bunkai..
by GojuRyuboy13
Yesterday at 08:28 AM
Judo 2014 World Championships Juniors: The Gallery
by ergees
10/25/14 04:53 PM
The Classic Pak Sao drill
by futsaowingchun
10/20/14 10:32 AM
wing chun kicks and knees
by futsaowingchun
10/09/14 12:55 AM
2014 European Championships Juniors: the Gallery
by ergees
10/05/14 10:56 AM
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
09/25/14 08:50 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Leo's Judo Journal
by Leo_E_49
01/24/12 02:58 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by
05/13/07 08:02 AM
Recent Posts
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
Yesterday at 10:01 PM
I spy kata bunkai..
by GojuRyuboy13
Yesterday at 08:28 AM
Judo 2014 World Championships Juniors: The Gallery
by ergees
10/25/14 04:53 PM
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
10/22/14 07:20 AM
The Classic Pak Sao drill
by futsaowingchun
10/20/14 10:32 AM
Leo's Judo Journal
by swordy
10/11/14 09:21 AM
wing chun kicks and knees
by futsaowingchun
10/09/14 12:55 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Ronin1966
10/08/14 09:22 PM
2014 European Championships Juniors: the Gallery
by ergees
10/05/14 10:56 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by AndyLA
10/04/14 10:20 AM
Forum Stats
22928 Members
36 Forums
35584 Topics
432513 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 25 1 2 3 ... 24 25 >
Topic Options
#410624 - 10/30/08 01:29 PM Who has the best strikes Karate or Boxing?
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Who has the best strikes Karate or Boxing? I've been asked this question often and my answer is it depends if we are talking tapped and gloved then it's boxing or bare knuckle then I believe it's Karate.

After studying boxing for a little while 2-3 yrs. and Karate for 25-30 years I've come to this conclusion. I might be bias but I'm trying not to be.

Seeing the injuries caused by boxer to themselves in street fights or sparring I concluded that boxing has a good delievry system but not a good foundation its builds upon. Giving boxers there due they have some of the most devastating strikes in combination because they are few, fast, simple and direct.

Karate on the other hand (though injuries occcur it happen less often then in the boxers hook punch) one reason is the foundation development of most Karatekas and the precision and snap in the strikes not all drive through. Another thing is the staggered target is easy to get a good shot on the head when you kick someone in the ba%%s or slap their ears and grab them and then strike them.

There are other factors but this is enough to start this discussion. I know one of the argument is if Karate is better or had the best strike why is it not used in MMA. My answer is because eye gouges, rigdehands to the the groins or ear slaps are illegal.

I like Boxing (especially its footwork as a defense) but it leaves out a lot of options.

Whats your take?


Edited by Neko456 (10/30/08 01:32 PM)
_________________________
DBAckerson

Top
#410625 - 10/30/08 07:25 PM Re: Who has the best strikes Karate or Boxing? [Re: Neko456]
duanew Offline
Member

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 326
Loc: MN
I'll start with a story that Phil Messina of the Modern Warrior in NY tells regarding open and closed hand strikes. He had a boxer come to him and wanted to compare strikes on some kind of measuring device. Phil told him that he had one. They went out into the parking lot and Phil picked up a large rock and sent it across the parking lot with an open palm strike. He retrieved the rock and handed it to the boxer who declined to hit it.
I know that in several studies in LE the primary injury from a use of force situation is an injured dominant hand or risk from striking a suspect in the head.
Now I have never punched anyone in the head in a real fight since taking of the martial arts-my kicks have always worked. Even though I use the makiwara-sparingly-no big ugly knuckles for me. If I did hit someone in the head it would be with an open palm.
In my personal opinion unless you are hitting the makiwara very regularily punching to the head is not a good idea-hence the old Okinawan saying "Hit the hard parts with something soft and the soft parts with something hard".
Also remember that once karate was introduced into the school curriculum the close fist replaced many open hand techniques in the kata for safety.
Look at Mike Tyson who broke his hand outside the ring and had to have a match postponed. If it ain't good for Mike it probably ain't good for you.

Top
#410626 - 10/30/08 08:26 PM Re: Who has the best strikes Karate or Boxing? [Re: duanew]
dandjurdjevic Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/10/08
Posts: 844
Loc: Australia
Excellent post.

Regardless of conditioning, karate blows are built on focus, not on power. As a result they are efficient but less aimed at "knockout". They are conservative in the sense that they are intended to minimise the (inevitable) opening any punch creates.

If I were to be in a ring fight with gloves I wouldn't try to use karate punches strictly. The glove makes it very difficult to "focus" in the same way (the padding creates deceleration no matter what you do). A straight thrust is therefore not going to be very useful. It certainly won't win the contest by knockout. Given the different aim of a ring match (to win, rather than to "not get hit") a boxer's punches are entirely appropriate for their environment.

A boxer's punches are also useful in self defence. However for the average punter I would recommend karate. Why? One is geared for civilian defence, the other is geared for sport. If you already gravitate towards sport, then boxing or MMA is preferable. But getting Ma and Pa plus kids to be sufficiently conditioned to use boxing skills is a bit of an ask. They are more likely to get mileage out of a good karate or other tma school (I emphasise "good" because there is a lot of McDojo stuff out there, relatively useless for self-defence).
_________________________
http://www.dandjurdjevic.com/

Top
#410627 - 10/30/08 10:37 PM Re: Who has the best strikes Karate or Boxing? [Re: dandjurdjevic]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
I prefer closed fist strikes. I prefer boxing. Fighters who do the required physical things correctly will not suffer injuries as often. Greater accuracy under dynamic motion (a byproduct of well-conducted practice) can reduce improper-angle-of-contact occurrences.

I have come to believe that the broken hand threat is over-rated and I believe fists transfer energy, in a fight, much more effectively than open-hands.

Aside from this, my opinion is that boxing is the premier science for learning how to hit someone in the face in a fight and defend from same. When I watch karate guys spar effectively, what are they using? Boxing hands. If not, the likelihood of their getting knocked out is quite high. Just my opinion.

I mean damn, I'll deal with my injured hand after my opponent is knocked cold, ya know?


-John

Top
#410628 - 10/31/08 10:32 AM Re: Who has the best strikes Karate or Boxing? [Re: Neko456]
JAMJTX Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/01/02
Posts: 585
Loc: Fort Wayne, IN
If you happen to be wearing boxing gloves, then stay with the boxing techniques. Or, take them off and use Karate techniques. Whether they be open hand or closed hand, you can not apply Karate techniques while wearing boxing gloves.

Boxing and Karate are 2 completely and totally different things and can not be compared.

Top
#410629 - 10/31/08 11:22 AM Re: Who has the best strikes Karate or Boxing? [Re: Neko456]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
I guess it would depend also on how you label karate and what it is to the individual who trains somewhere. The stuff I learned was heavily influenced by boxing and we have had pro and semi-pro boxers practice and train with us.

The current Japanese karate instructor we have is a licensed boxing instructor in Japan and one of the other instructors had done amatuer boxing in Japan. One of my former senpai was also on the US Boxing team in the 80s.

So, what's boxing or karate if you use it in your training? Some of the best karate guys I know who could hit, were former boxers and I think that comes from their experience of actually hitting and being hit and this expanding their capacity when more tools are provided to help in that hitting.

With that said, our system doesn't incorporate hammer fists, ridge hands or a lot of other more esoteric karate strikes. Lots of straights, crosses, hooks, elbows, uppers and shovel punches punches that's a peculiar hybrid of karate and boxing and often seen in Kyokushin. Nice punch to the kidneys once you turn your opponent.

So, as I was saying, your karate may not be the standard from which I draw my bag of tools. Hard to say.

Top
#410630 - 10/31/08 11:31 AM Re: Who has the best strikes Karate or Boxing? [Re: Neko456]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
I agree with JKogas, I think the whole "getting your had broke thing" does get over played sometimes. Bare Knuckled boxers didn't automatically get a broken hand after every bout.

RE Mike Tyson, yes he broke his hand on Mitch Green in a street fight. But witnesses report that he dropped Green with a single shot too.

A clip that has been debated here, but it shows bare-handed boxing vs people in a defensive situation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySNWVBDuta

This subject has been debated before on here. I prefer boxings methods of punching and defense over the karate (and TKD) I have seen and briefly studied.

People make the arguement that karate strikes target vunerable areas (e.g. throat, floating rib, solar plexus, kidneys etc...) Why would a trained boxer attacking these areas do less well than a trained Karate-ka or a TKD'er?

Personal choice in the end, but the boxing I learnt is a straight forward no-nonsense system, easy to remember, easier to train in, easier to improve in, easier to perform in a given situation. That's my experience.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

Top
#410631 - 10/31/08 12:04 PM Re: Who has the best strikes Karate or Boxing? [Re: Prizewriter]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Jkogas - Certainly you can't worry about being injuried during a conflict and in a real fight you will have injuries even if its just a swollen hand or scraped knuckle.
Taped and gloved Boxing bare knuckled Karate for me.

JamTx - Striking is striking really as Butterfly stated some mix the way they strike. So the strikes are setup differently but eventually contact is made to do damage so they are not that much differences. In my book.

Butterfly - Our base are different and Kyoushin does train different its niether boxing nor Karate strictly, boxing punches without being taped and glove would scare a true boxer and hamper a Karateman gloved. Old style Kyoushin use to do lots of markiwari training and conditioing, I don't know if this true anymore. So we would see this slightly different. I've always wondered about contact Karates self defense so it does little or no open hand strikes. We fight the way we train hopefully if a guy turned his back or you slipped to his back you wouldn't heisatate to strike. Me a back wide open is supper time.

Prizefighter - You and Jkogas are in the majority in the modern strikinhg arts alot has changed because of MMA or gloved training. But Ole timers like me like sweeping and striking or swipingg palms across the chin, throat grabs that slams their head against a wall or door, cupped palms strikes that shatters ear drums, finger strikes to neck or trecha, and the treid an true grabbing and twisting grion claw. I like the slashing and smashing elbows and knees. Sweeps, throws and trips that add to more strikes. Some would say thats too complicated or too serious or bodering on illegal or not necessary.

I can only say I don't like to fight. So use stuff that if i get it in the fight own't last long.

Which has the best strikes pending on what you want or trying to do, I'd say.

Injury wise I've found that the thumb up boxing hook more prone to injury the the thumb held to side. Unless taped and gloved. I like boxing more simplistic delievery but Karates and some boxing thumb inside and flat fist hook punch.

Whats you take?


Edited by Neko456 (10/31/08 12:08 PM)

Top
#410632 - 10/31/08 12:28 PM Re: Who has the best strikes Karate or Boxing? [Re: Neko456]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Doesn't this really depend on the strengths of the individual and not the "art" he practices? Of course it does. As always, its the artist and not the art.

As a person who works from a heavy boxing-based delivery system, I can tell you that an intelligent boxer would not go in swing wildly. Naturally, the word "intelligent" here would immediately rule out Mike Tyson. Would it not?

Any intelligent boxer (if he's so coached) will utilize good "boxing" skills as opposed to mere "slugging". I think that's a huge difference and a critical point to understand.

The notion of "boxing" rather than mere slugging, implies everything besides just the hitting portion of the delivery system. Meaning; posture, footwork, evasiveness and the most important aspect - the jab.

If a boxer was truly interested in self-defense and not just with beating his opponent up, he would play more of the counter-puncher, angler, or runner style and rely upon the jab (especially the retreating jab) to keep his opponent off him. This of course would mean that he had his ego under control to begin with, something very important from a self-defense perspective.

A stinging jab being the most accurate perhaps of all punches, can do enough to cause enough damage (broken nose) without the risk of serious injury. This is due in part to a variety of factors including, greater accuracy, less commitment, more versatility, etc.

Combined with good footwork and an intelligent strategy, the jab is really all you need to stay safe. Many boxing coaches will tell you the very same thing.

People who go wading in swinging wildly, simply aren't disciplined, controlled fighters. A boxer who is however, would be a formidable opponent.

Just my opinion. Truthfully, I believe any stylist can develop the same tendency, technique and strategy. Boxing, karate, etc...doesn't matter. No art owns the truth. It's a matter of how you train, and again, how disciplined you are as a fighter.

Top
#410633 - 10/31/08 12:29 PM Re: Who has the best strikes Karate or Boxing? [Re: Neko456]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
Heck, I like a good sweep or reap as much as the next guy!

I know Karate has a lot of hand techniques doesn't related to grabbing/locking that boxing etc... My response addressed the issue of what has better striking (in my experience) Karate or Boxing?

Not that it would change my answer, but are you including other hand techniques in this thread outside of striking (e.g. grabbing)?

Where possible, I hit with my fist, not with my thumb! As a habit I tuck it in if I ever shadow box bare hand i.e. my thumb is outside my fist beneath my fingers.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

Top
Page 1 of 25 1 2 3 ... 24 25 >


Moderator:  Ames, Cord, MattJ, Reiki, Ronin1966 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Stun Guns
Variety of stun gun devices for your protection

Buy Pepper Spray
Worry about your family when you’re not around? Visit us today to protect everything you value.

Koryu.com
Accurate information on the ancient martial traditions of the Japanese samurai

C2 Taser
Protect yourself and loved ones from CRIME with the latest C2 Taser citizen model. Very effective.

 

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga