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#410603 - 10/30/08 11:21 AM Elbows and Knees?
bo-ken Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 1228
Loc: beaver falls, PA, beaver
I have a few questions pertaining to the use of elbows and knees in karate. Well mainly in sparring.

1. Are you use them during sparring?
2. If so can you use them to the head?
3. Do you block with them?

These were just I few I am going to add to this later. I am trying to figure out a better way of incorporating them into sparring without having as many injuries. Let me know and feel free to add to this.

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#410604 - 10/30/08 11:43 AM Re: Elbows and Knees? [Re: bo-ken]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
1. Razor and I do use knees in sparring. Elbows occasionally, but pretty rare - too hard to control.

2. Generally knees only to the body.

3. Yes, we both block with both knees and elbows.
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#410605 - 10/30/08 10:44 PM Re: Elbows and Knees? [Re: MattJ]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Elbows cut so easily, that even with controlled sparring they are dangerous. Knees work fine and are much easier to control. We'll use knees to the body and simulate them to the head.

I use elbows and knees defensively also, with a strong Panantukan influence.


-John

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#410606 - 10/31/08 02:31 AM Re: Elbows and Knees? [Re: bo-ken]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
bo

-Don't do use them in sparring....do sometimes block with them--esp if my sparring partner is a little out of control.

Do work them on the bags and air shields.

I'd suggest some heavy headgear---I'd avoid the steel mask type--you can really hurt your elbows etc.
But some of the Red Man gear seems to work well.
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#410607 - 11/02/08 10:58 PM Re: Elbows and Knees? [Re: cxt]
bo-ken Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 1228
Loc: beaver falls, PA, beaver
Thanks everyone keep them coming. Perhaps I will make them body shots only during sparring and use them to the head during drills only.

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#410608 - 11/03/08 07:51 AM Re: Elbows and Knees? [Re: bo-ken]
Ives Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 691
Loc: the Netherlands
1. Are you use them during sparring?
Yes we do occaisionally.
2. If so can you use them to the head?
Yes, since we use the bogu.
3. Do you block with them?
Yes, although we prefer using basic uke.
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#410609 - 11/03/08 11:50 AM Re: Elbows and Knees? [Re: bo-ken]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Yes,

Train them and use them. As John said, using elbows to the head dangerous in active sparring. You can simulate them if you put your opponent into an especially compromised position to receive an elbow cu de grace and create some distance with a slowed technique.

I have known a person to receive a concussion on the receiving side of an elbow and have seen busted teeth and chops with back elbows. Ain't pretty.

Knees, you may have to limit some of the contact points, but try to use the top of the quads instead of the top of the knee in sparring if using a round knee strike, or when bringing an opponent's head down to a knee---softly.

For blocks, can't imagine not using a rising elbow block to stop a hook to the head.

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#410610 - 11/06/08 03:20 PM Re: Elbows and Knees? [Re: butterfly]
Ironfoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2682
Loc: St. Clair Shores, MI USA
Don't spar with them, but do train them. I especially love elbows and teach them a lot in grappling-range drills. Blocking with either? No thanks - I still have a chipped elbow from blocking a ^%(*# tank back in 1974.
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#410611 - 11/18/08 05:19 AM Re: Elbows and Knees? [Re: Ironfoot]
Ives Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 691
Loc: the Netherlands
During training you should be very carefull with otoshi-empi-waza. The downward elbowstrike. It is a very powerfull technique, because of the tension applied from the lower shoulder.
This technique is also hard to block. You could evade it perhaps.

Who else trains kneestrikes /hiza-geri as a forward and a roundhouse strike (mae-hiza-geri and mawashi-hiza-geri)?
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Ives

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#410612 - 11/21/08 05:49 PM Re: Elbows and Knees? [Re: Ives]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
Yes we do. We use the specific elbow you mention in sparring and several others. Mostly this will be the advanced students and they are expected to have better control.
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#410613 - 11/21/08 06:02 PM Re: Elbows and Knees? [Re: bo-ken]
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
Look no further than Thailand for how to train elbows and knees.
Thai boxing makes use of a good pad man to train them.Trainers are normaly ex fighters so the pad work is fed as realistic as possible.
I think pad work is the next best thing for full contact elbow ,knee work next to actual fights involving them.

Elbows are best used to cut and freak the guy out with blood or have it blind them a bit,so in that sense I dont think that intent is suited to sparring as the sharpe cutting motion is hard to fake so I dont see the point in going light in a spar with elbows unless its for the defender to learn defense against them.

Thats from an open position.

A closed position ,as in clinched, Im still learning so I guess it has to be light or again have good pad equipment and body pads and also good pad trainers.A combination of heavy pad work and lighter work where the clinching part and getting position is looked at more and done full yet the finishing with elbows and knees is done lighter.It can done lighter as in theory the finish is only done or available when you have the important ,dominant position.


Edited by matxtx (11/21/08 06:14 PM)
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