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#410163 - 10/24/08 03:26 PM mushin/no mind info
cougar Offline

Registered: 10/23/08
Posts: 19
Loc: Chicagoland area, USA
OK, had posted similar question on the general martial arts area. Does any one of you have experiences going "no mind" while performing a kata, or, more specifically during sparring? I have not been getting the kind of feedback I had hoped for in the former area. Posters seem to think I'm in need of mental help or am trying to "show off" I guess. Books seem to only reference the state, but ones given to me seemed to confirm what was going on. I have been going in and out of the state while fighting for about a year now. Didn't know what was going on, except that I thought it was really strange. Looking for stuff I can read, how can I cultivate it,etc. Sensei says he does not do this so he cannot guide me in this. Said it's not a common occurance, I guess. Figured this forum may be more receptive/have had experiences with this thing. Anybody?

#410164 - 10/24/08 03:47 PM Re: mushin/no mind info [Re: cougar]
everyone Offline

Registered: 01/02/07
Posts: 597
Loc: USA
There isn't a need to ask the question again. You have the answers you want but they just do not match the responses you have received. Your cup is already full!

#410165 - 10/24/08 03:58 PM Re: mushin/no mind info [Re: everyone]
cougar Offline

Registered: 10/23/08
Posts: 19
Loc: Chicagoland area, USA
My point in revising/posting a new was to get info or someone to share a similar experience and some direction to go in (if one may be taken) As stated above, I thought this forum's viewers may have more insight into this kind of thing. It is unfortunate, I haven't gotten the replies I wanted to see. My cup isn't full and I don't know that it will be. I do have some in the bottom and that's better than what I started off with. The vast majority of what I've gotten is questions and some sarcasim. Yes, there were a FEW kind people who gave me two suggestions. I thank them for their time and effors in replying.

#410166 - 10/24/08 04:15 PM Re: mushin/no mind info [Re: cougar]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
There is no artificial dichotomy of posters and subforums; you will find the same people that post in MA Talk often wander into the Meditation forum as well.

I thought Duane and Matt's suggestions were pretty helpful. Otherwise, feel free to do a seach on 'mushin'. Past posts might address your interest.

#410167 - 10/24/08 04:51 PM Re: mushin/no mind info [Re: harlan]
cougar Offline

Registered: 10/23/08
Posts: 19
Loc: Chicagoland area, USA
Sorry Harlan, never posted ANYWHERE before, sorry to Everyone if I breeched ettiquette. Didn't know how much same people ventured about the forums and thought it worth a shot. Wrote all book suggestions down and need to look at Matt's suggestion, but thankful for both already. Now just have to FIND the books-usually the fun part.

#410168 - 10/24/08 05:47 PM Re: mushin/no mind info [Re: cougar]
WuXing Offline

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 481
Loc: Idaho, USA
Meditation is how you cultivate. Meditation is the most important, hardest, and easiest thing you can do. Just do it.

#410169 - 01/27/09 10:45 AM Re: mushin/no mind info [Re: WuXing]
stantonwarrior Offline

Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 1
read the unfettered mind.

#410170 - 01/29/09 12:28 AM Re: mushin/no mind info [Re: stantonwarrior]
AdamAlexander Offline

Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 30

Does any one of you have experiences going "no mind" while performing a kata, or, more specifically during sparring?

Yes. That, in my opinion, is the purpose of martial arts. It's moving meditation.

To develop it, during your kata, focus on something you're trying to improve. By putting all your attention on something physical, you have no attention to apply to inner dialogue. The absence of inner dialogue allows room for the sensation you're referring to to expand.

By doing it during training, it happens for me naturally when something comes up-- Even when it should be really high stress like being threatened on the street.

Good luck.
Always the man in whom thought thrusts ahead of thought, allows the goal to move far off.

#410171 - 01/29/09 11:27 AM Re: mushin/no mind info [Re: AdamAlexander]
Ames Offline

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
Someone mentioned Unfettered Mind, and I'm not sure if this comes from there or The Life Giving Sword (I don't have the books anymore, as they were lost in a move). Anyway, the author speaks, really beautifully about NOT resting your mind in your opponent, in your sword, in your body (including the hara), or in your mind.

Although it is a good start resting your mind in your hara (dantien) for the purposes of eventually coming to a meditative state, one must eventually go beyond this. Think of this stage as counting the breaths in Zen, which is done to build focus and concentration. Eventually though, one progresses to shiken taza, the thoughts that arise should be less, and you focus intently on them. Soon the mind becomes more and more empty.

This is similar to the process of martial arts (for meditative purposes): You start with focus on the technique, things like where the feet and hands go etc. Then you can move on to putting the mind in the breath and the breath in the hara. But eventually, the mind should be nowhere and there should be no thought arising.

Not that I have achieved that state more than a dozen times, but that does seem to be the gist from what I have read and experienced.

I agree with the poster who said that a good way to cultivate or grasp this kind of mind is through sitting practice as well as the moving. As a matter of fact, I think sitting is intrinsic. Finding a good non-cult teacher is also good. If you can't find one, work alone till you can, but BEWARE OF MAKYO.


Edited by Ames (01/29/09 11:28 AM)
"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."


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