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#410092 - 10/22/08 11:13 PM Something to Ponder
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
Is a TKD training hall in Japan called a "Dojang" or a "Dojo"? The art being Korean would make you think it should be the former while being in the country of Japan and their language would be the latter. Any one know?

VDJ

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#410093 - 10/23/08 05:05 AM Re: Something to Ponder [Re: VDJ]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
I think it's called a flashy shotokan dojo.
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#410094 - 10/23/08 09:35 PM Re: Something to Ponder [Re: BrianS]
TKD_X Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 786
Loc: HERE
Is the instructor Korean? Then it becomes a Kyokushin Dojo.
If he is a loyal Korean then it would be dojang.
You could skip both and call it "kwan".
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#410095 - 10/23/08 10:20 PM Re: Something to Ponder [Re: VDJ]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
I think some may be confusing the issue. In English speaking countries we might say TKD school. However as students of TKD in Korean we would say Dojang. Now in Japan, they would not use school, but rather Dojo. However TKD students should use Dojang. From the ones I know in Japan, they do use Dojang.
It should be noted that the caliber of TK-D in Japan is very high. It was introduced there in the early 80s by Ambassador Choi & GM Park Jung Tae lived there teaching in the 1st Dojang. The results were amazing as the team from Japan won 1st place team patterns in the 1988 WCs held in Budapest. Ambassador Choi was over joyed seeing his Art being embraced in Japan & being so successful.

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#410096 - 10/24/08 11:05 AM Re: Something to Ponder [Re: TKD_X]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
Quote:

Is the instructor Korean? Then it becomes a Kyokushin Dojo.
If he is a loyal Korean then it would be dojang.
You could skip both and call it "kwan".




Sorry TKD_X,

First off, Kyokushin is a style in itself and I am not sure that you understood what I was asking as I am asking about the art of TKD not the instructor. However( as is no surprise here), ITFunity's answer makes more sense to my question.

VDJ

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#410097 - 10/24/08 04:35 PM Re: Something to Ponder [Re: VDJ]
TKD_X Offline
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Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 786
Loc: HERE
i was just trying to make a joke like BrianS did. i guess it didn't work. he said it would be a flashy shotokan dojo. I thought of a korean-japanese connections and then mas oyama and then kyokushin. it wasn't meant to be a serious response. sorry for the confusion. and for the record, i know what kyokushin is.

-TKD_X
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#410098 - 10/25/08 12:21 PM Re: Something to Ponder [Re: TKD_X]
flynch Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 265
Since mine is in a student union building of as local university I call it martial arts class.

I think if you were in Japan it would be properly refered to as a dojo as that is the Japanese term. If you were trying to be exclusionary and elitest then you would use the term dojang.

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#410099 - 10/25/08 02:18 PM Re: Something to Ponder [Re: flynch]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Mr Flynch then how should they address their teacher?
sensei
sabumnim
same thing in my eyes
Korean MA of TKD uses both english & korean terminology, in each country the native language there is obviously substituted for english, hower the korean terms still apply, no?
in the WCs the instructions are give in korean, so why would they not use korean terms for the KMA of TKD in japan?
a dojang is a place where tkd is trained

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#410100 - 10/25/08 03:48 PM Re: Something to Ponder [Re: ITFunity]
flynch Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 265
Different in mine. Instructor I can see using the term from the specfic art. Building is a building.

My instructor teaches in English there are no korean terms used except for the pattern names.

I must admit I do not know any korean terms it just not something that has every been used or required to be known. Alas ... I guess I would not do well at the world championships.

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#410101 - 10/25/08 10:54 PM Re: Something to Ponder [Re: flynch]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

Different in mine. Instructor I can see using the term from the specfic art. Building is a building.
My instructor teaches in English there are no korean terms used except for the pattern names.
I must admit I do not know any korean terms it just not something that has every been used or required to be known. Alas ... I guess I would not do well at the world championships.



Ok so you know I can't pass up a good debate, although this may seem like a lame topic/point, but here goes:
Building is a Building, yes but there are different types of buildings, apartment buildings that house people, school building that house academic classes, commerical buildings that house stores or manufactorers, office buildings that house businesses, etc. Now there are also buildings that house martial art training centers, like a Dojo for karate & a dojang for TKD. I don;t think it is being elitist, but just respectfull to the Art.
So then how do you address your teacher? How do you bow in & start the class? We use all Korean terms.
Now in the WCs it makes sense to use korean terms, as not everyone knows english & that would make a possible unfair advantage. So since it is a KMA korean terms are mandatory for competition, as it equals the playing field.

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#410102 - 10/25/08 11:04 PM Re: Something to Ponder [Re: VDJ]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

Is a TKD training hall in Japan called a "Dojang" or a "Dojo"? The art being Korean would make you think it should be the former while being in the country of Japan and their language would be the latter. Any one know?

VDJ






And I thought you were just going to wonder if Kyokuskin was Japanese or Korean.

Good [censored] God already, lol!


Anyway, sorry for thread drift. Just had to get that in.

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#410103 - 10/26/08 12:46 AM Re: Something to Ponder [Re: ITFunity]
flynch Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 265
Quote:

Quote:

Different in mine. Instructor I can see using the term from the specfic art. Building is a building.
My instructor teaches in English there are no korean terms used except for the pattern names.
I must admit I do not know any korean terms it just not something that has every been used or required to be known. Alas ... I guess I would not do well at the world championships.



Ok so you know I can't pass up a good debate, although this may seem like a lame topic/point, but here goes:
Building is a Building, yes but there are different types of buildings, apartment buildings that house people, school building that house academic classes, commerical buildings that house stores or manufactorers, office buildings that house businesses, etc. Now there are also buildings that house martial art training centers, like a Dojo for karate & a dojang for TKD. I don;t think it is being elitist, but just respectfull to the Art.
So then how do you address your teacher? How do you bow in & start the class? We use all Korean terms.
Now in the WCs it makes sense to use korean terms, as not everyone knows english & that would make a possible unfair advantage. So since it is a KMA korean terms are mandatory for competition, as it equals the playing field.




Ok...

Building is a building. Dojang, Dojo, hall, class, school, room xyz are just names for the location of your training. If you are in japan use Dojo if in korea use Dojang if USA use martial arts trainning center. I am sure there is a french word or an italian word you get my point.

How do I address my teacher...

Well I have private lessaons so I say master ... but in class I call the head instructor by his first name.

In both cases we line up after the instructor say "Line Up" then we bow when the instructor says "Bow" all in english. All techniques during class or private lessons are referred to in english. There is no Korean used.

We have many Koreans our class and they all know Korean but do not use it. Although I must admitt I did get a yellow belt to teach me "ready, begin" in Korean.

It makes sense to use standardized terminology for the WC's where people have different languages. I do not think I will ever go.

As you know there are some things I am interested in knowing more about and others that I am not really too interested in. There is only so much time in the day and so many things in life to do.

I feel I would've been considered a difficult student if it wasn't for the patience of my instructor. I can see that I would not have lasted long at most schools or under most instructors. But fortunately I am in a unique situation.

Remember that although General Choi taught respect, compliance and obedience his best students and best instructors argued with him constantly about the things he was doing wrt Tae Kwon Do.

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#410104 - 10/26/08 10:36 AM Re: Something to Ponder [Re: flynch]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

Building is a building. Dojang, Dojo, hall, class, school, room xyz are just names for the location of your training. If you are in japan use Dojo if in korea use Dojang if USA use martial arts trainning center. I am sure there is a french word or an italian word you get my point.


Fair enuf & since I see you don't use & maybe never have used Korean terms I will drop this & agree to disagree. For those that are used to using Korean terms we or at least I see a big difference especially given the use of Japanese terms given their collective histories.

Quote:

Remember that although General Choi taught respect, compliance and obedience his best students and best instructors argued with him constantly about the things he was doing wrt Tae Kwon Do.



Agree totally. A leaders best people are those that give real input, not just yes man. Different points of view sparks debate & analysis which helps find better solutions.

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