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#409804 - 10/17/08 09:47 PM Modern Shinken Question
NickL Offline
Stranger

Registered: 10/17/08
Posts: 2
Hello, I am a Jujutsuka and judoka who is interested in what this board has to offer, I can appreciate honest questions and answers, thank you for having me.
Is there anyone who has had experiences with www.handmadesword.com in their 1095 line. Any advice would be appreciated.

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#409805 - 10/18/08 12:46 PM Re: Modern Shinken Question [Re: NickL]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
I am totally unfamiliar with this organization and/or its products. That is likely my own fault.

My observation is that for a group that offers swords of high carbon steel from $10,000 to $100 as well as movie replicas, they are very into picturing tsuba rather than blades.

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#409806 - 10/18/08 09:31 PM Re: Modern Shinken Question [Re: iaibear]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

I am totally unfamiliar with this organization and/or its products. That is likely my own fault.

My observation is that for a group that offers swords of high carbon steel from $10,000 to $100 as well as movie replicas, they are very into picturing tsuba rather than blades.




Am I right that authentic Japanese made shinken involving traditional tamahagene (sp), are made in small controlled volume by registered master swordsmiths; and as such, every such weapon would be attributed to a specific smith, as opposed to being on a website that invites 'wholesale' enquiries?!? one close up of a blade on that site had a serial number stamped into the tang, as opposed to a signature/symbol etched into it !!!!!
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#409807 - 10/19/08 10:52 AM Re: Modern Shinken Question [Re: Cord]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
Can't help you on the spelling.

I have personally been honored to be permitted to hold a shinken. It was/is a two hundred year old forgery done by a very talented forger. As such it still has value of its own in the $6000 bracket. The tang was carefully engraved with the forged identification, not a stamped ID. It handled beautifully the one kata I was permitted to perform with it.

You really have to know your dealer or you will get taken.

Yes, that "wholesale" bit and the "high carbon steel Samurai katana swords from $100" is pretty indicative of the dealership. But who knows, he might have a real treasure he has been saving in the back room for someone special.

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#409808 - 10/19/08 09:23 PM Re: Modern Shinken Question [Re: iaibear]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
By Japanese law, a smith can only make 2 long swords or 3 short swords a month.

There are a handful of well known and respected distributors available. If you are planning to spend a significant amount of money, you would be well advised to stick with a known entity. There are entirely too many places around selling junk.

If you don't know who the reputable places are, you should really do some research. There are plenty of reviews at http://www.swordforum.com
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Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#409809 - 10/20/08 11:37 AM Re: Modern Shinken Question [Re: NickL]
pgsmith Offline
Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 275
Loc: Texas
As Charles said, there is a lot of junk coming out of China these days. Since I know very little about this particular outfit, I can't tell you what their swords are like. What I do know is that they are another Chinese forge producing Japanese style blades.
The only connection between all of these swords being mass produced in China and an authentic Japanese nihonto is the shape. They may call them Japanese swords and shinken, but the difference in the quality of construction, finish, and quality of parts used is huge.
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#409810 - 10/21/08 11:13 AM Re: Modern Shinken Question [Re: NickL]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
I definitely refer you to the Cheap Steel Sux post in this forum. It is quite clear on the subject of carbon steel blades.


Edited by iaibear (10/21/08 11:16 AM)

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#409811 - 10/21/08 11:51 AM Re: Modern Shinken Question [Re: Cord]
Halley Offline
Member

Registered: 06/13/05
Posts: 126
Quote:

Am I right that authentic Japanese made shinken involving traditional tamahagene (sp), are made in small controlled volume by registered master swordsmiths; and as such, every such weapon would be attributed to a specific smith, as opposed to being on a website that invites 'wholesale' enquiries?!? one close up of a blade on that site had a serial number stamped into the tang, as opposed to a signature/symbol etched into it !!!!!




Since you marked (sp):

tama hagane - gem/bead steel (iron mined from sand ore)

mei - signature

nakago - inner heart (tang)

shinken - true sword (sharp sword)

I tried adding the kanji here again, but this forum doesn't support them.

Linguistically, 'shinken' just implies it's not a practice sword like a wood bokken or bamboo shinai. Amongst the JSA, though, it would refer to (1) Japanese-made, (2) steel, (3) sharp. The trio of those three attributes puts such an artifact in a very special category legally as well as philosophically.

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#409812 - 02/18/09 05:21 PM Re: Modern Shinken Question [Re: Halley]
karl314285 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 326
Loc: The Matrix, Serif is Teacher
Nihonto vs. Shinken vs. "Katana"
Smiths allowed to make only as moderator Mahan notes, to be Nihonto or Shinken Japanese Law requires the use of only the Japanese iron Tama Hagane as moderator Cord noted. Limit on number of swords to leave country and prior to this, strict inspection must yield a Legally binding unique registration number on card which is typically attached to really nice sword bag and must stay with sword, there may be an estimation of quality of blade on registration card, Swords made by smiths designated National Treasures stay. If a sale is made registration card must be transferred to new owner via Japanese Gvt and some cash unless the sword is made for you. as an aside I believe that 1095 is no proof of authentic Nihonto (new or real Japanese sword/also art sword)...Shinken (as Nihonto except not art sword, but a sword made for combat). try swordstore.com
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