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#425103 - 02/16/10 10:36 PM Re: Differences in sparring [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Taekwondofan you should resort back to the JKD perspective. There are no defensive moves really. However, they do have low line destruction's using the legs.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
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#425154 - 02/17/10 12:12 PM Re: Differences in sparring [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Originally Posted By: TaekwonDoFan
The ITF that I did used hand/arm blocks, not leg blocks. I consider the leg to be an offensive weapon, not defensive.
Please do not consider this an aatack, but kindly define the ITF you did?
One must understand that there are several ways to look at the ITF or original TKD. One thing is certain, the ITF syllabus as outlined in the 15 volume Encyclopedia of TKD written by Gen Choi contains several kicks that are for only defensive moves, aka blocking. For instance, crescent kick. There is also hooking kick which is also defensive, as are front & side rising kicks. However both of these rising kicks also have dual purposes for limbering up & stretching. There are also checking & waving kicks as well, all of the top of my head. I am sure I am missing a couple of more.
So at times, one's personal training experience may not accurately reflect the complete ITF training syllabus.
Added side note, while the 15 volumes is dated 1983, the previous textbooks dated 1972 & 1965 all contained defensive kicks

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#425168 - 02/17/10 05:26 PM Re: Differences in sparring [Re: ITFunity]
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 269
I started learning TKD from one of the first grandmasters in ITF TKD; a few years later, when I went away to college, I took a few classes under another ITF master, not one of the original under Choi Hong Hi, and this one eventually went WTF. Then, several years after I graduated, I took a summer off and again practiced in an ITF school, but this time, I was an instructor.

I have studied under many masters during my studies and travels, and the final one, who gave me my 1st dan, is a WTF master.

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#425172 - 02/17/10 07:42 PM Re: Differences in sparring [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Originally Posted By: TaekwonDoFan
I started learning TKD from one of the first grandmasters in ITF TKD; a few years later, when I went away to college, I took a few classes under another ITF master, not one of the original under Choi Hong Hi, and this one eventually went WTF. Then, several years after I graduated, I took a summer off and again practiced in an ITF school, but this time, I was an instructor.
I have studied under many masters during my studies and travels, and the final one, who gave me my 1st dan, is a WTF master.
Then you must have studied under GMs Rhee Ki Ha or Hwang Kwang Sung or Park Jong Soo, as they were the only active ITF GMs he promoted to that level, unless you mean some of the older or other pioneers, who left the ITF over 25 years ago. They certainly could not be considered ITF by any active up to date standard today. Please elaborate if you can

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#425174 - 02/17/10 08:08 PM Re: Differences in sparring [Re: ITFunity]
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 269
Close but no cigar - yes, he was one of the pioneers. What difference does that make whom I studied under?

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#425176 - 02/17/10 09:02 PM Re: Differences in sparring [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Originally Posted By: TaekwonDoFan
Close but no cigar - yes, he was one of the pioneers. What difference does that make whom I studied under?
No it makes no difference from a personal standpoint. I even added if you wanted to share that info.
Now here is my point: you speak about the ITF way, but to me, we have a different perspective of what the ITF is & what their training entails. Certainly someone who left the ITF fold has not been there for all the evolution, updates & changes over the years. So I am merely trying to determine a definition or concept of what we mean when we say ITF. It appears that we may have different outlooks on what the ITF is, which is fine, but does not always allow for a concise exchange of thoughts etc, no harm meant at all, sorry

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#425178 - 02/17/10 09:07 PM Re: Differences in sparring [Re: ITFunity]
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 269
The last ITF place I went to was run by a goofball 8th dan, and that was well over a decade ago, so maybe my opinion is jaded.

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#425184 - 02/18/10 03:35 AM Re: Differences in sparring [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 269
OK, I reread your posts. The last goofball ITF grandmaster (so-called) tried to show how kicks can be defensive, but they just don't work. Kicking is offensive, and, to the extent that the best defence is a good offense, then, yes, a kick is defensive. But it is primarily offensive.

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#425214 - 02/18/10 10:21 AM Re: Differences in sparring [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Originally Posted By: TaekwonDoFan
OK, I reread your posts. The last goofball ITF grandmaster (so-called) tried to show how kicks can be defensive, but they just don't work. Kicking is offensive, and, to the extent that the best defence is a good offense, then, yes, a kick is defensive. But it is primarily offensive.
Not to be combative, but I do disagree, which is fine. 1st an ITF 8th Dan is only a master, not a GM, which is reserved for 9th Dan only. More importantly is that of course kicks with the legs & feet can be defensive. Why would someone limit their options?
What is your hands were held? If you were in a bear hug? Handcuffed? Carrying something too precious to drop? Or born with no arms?
While I think it makes commons sense that arms are better for blocking, one can never foretell every imaginable situation, so I would never rule out possibilities, as that does not make sense to me.
Waving kicks are very good, maybe the best for blocking or defending against certain low kicks, as are checking kicks. Ever hear of the Korean folk game TaekKyon? Gen Choi did, & that is a reason why he added foot technique sparring

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