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#408982 - 10/02/08 12:58 PM Not THAT Shotokan!!!
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
Snooping around the karate forums as I like to do now and again, I read some old threads about Shotokan on here. A lot of them concern people asking about specific orginizations.

A lot of the posts are pretty critical about many of the major Shotokan orginizations such as JKA, ITKF, KUGB (well, KUGB as it is now...) and the way they teach Shotokan.

Does anyone have any examples of what they consider "good" Shotokan (apart from the Art of War KUGB clip, which is ace!), be it from their own experience, websites, or media they have online (e.g. video clips, images etc...)??

A lot of people here seem to have an interest in Shotokan ( I do, though I don't practice it or know a lot about it), and as I said, some people have some very strong opinions on what "bad" Shotokan is. So surely some folks must have experience/ideas of what they consider "good" Shotokan to be!
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#408983 - 10/02/08 01:15 PM Re: Not THAT Shotokan!!! [Re: Prizewriter]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
*paging JohnL*
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#408984 - 10/02/08 04:26 PM Re: Not THAT Shotokan!!! [Re: Prizewriter]
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
i'm under the ITKF banner, which means nothing to people outside the shotokan world, but it has many differences from the origional JKA style, and the modern KUGB style.

what i consider to the be older JKA style:
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=rYG4OpE9lR4

this is what i consider near the pinicle of technical skill in technique for these guys. not my cup of tea, all shotokan guys have roots that mix in the not to distant past, but i'm glade what i do has changed from this stuff.

this is more of what i call JKA stuff:
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=P0TNTFj3EuQ

this i don't like. repetetion is key for skill building, but what you repeat is vital!, lol. ippon kumite, kihon, and (solo) kata practice define this stuff. i don't like it. the only punch practiced is the full extention reverse punch, no thought to close punching. back leg kept "straight" means the hip is pulled on and the lumbar spine in placed under extreme presure on contact. but do it this way because sensei says. i don't like it.

the ITKF stuf fi've posted on here usually gets ripped by non ITKF guys, and most people in general.

this is kata the ITKF shoots for in competetion standards:
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=gPP8s_KXEpU

these are some drills to develop timing:
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=FBIlzeeFQ2g
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=fUYqrcU0RW8
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=2JeuvI5bYFY

alot of people don't like the ITKF, i do. i think it's got it's flaws too, plenty of them, too many to list here, lol. but they apply to shotokan in general, mostly.

what it's got to offer that the others don't is, in my mind, a reason behind everything in shotokan that makes you think "ummmm, why am i doing this?" real scientific/commen sense reasons why we do things the way we do. which i can sink my teeth into alot more then having some one tell me to do a kata 1000 times before next week to improve my technique. which is nonsense.
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#408985 - 10/02/08 07:10 PM Re: Not THAT Shotokan!!! [Re: student_of_life]
Shonuff Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/03/04
Posts: 603
Loc: London, UK
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=QAzX7dUDDfM

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym6NALT5VsQ

The above are two of the best representations of modern Shotokan being used in a fight-effective way.

Modern Shotokan as it is commonly taught has alot of flaws, many of which are evident in both of these clips, but it has many strong points which make it in my mind a very effective art and a worthy discipline. Best of all is how much more the art has to offer the individual who develops himself beyond the limits of the Japanese conventions.


Edited by Shonuff (10/02/08 07:11 PM)
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It's Shotokan not Shoto-can't!!!

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#408986 - 10/02/08 10:49 PM Re: Not THAT Shotokan!!! [Re: Shonuff]
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
"Best of all is how much more the art has to offer the individual who develops himself beyond the limits of the Japanese conventions."

Amen brother.
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its not supposed to make sense

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#408987 - 10/03/08 06:38 AM Re: Not THAT Shotokan!!! [Re: student_of_life]
dandjurdjevic Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/10/08
Posts: 844
Loc: Australia
Being an ex-Sefrican (South African) I can't help but recommend the shotokan of Malcolm Dorfmann, Stan Schmidt, Norman Robinson and Rob Ferrier; quite simply superb karate.

Have a look at "Kill or be Killed" and "Kill and Kill Again" - movies featuring James Ryan in the lead role. Clunky Sefrican productions, but excellent karate from the JKA masters of the era...
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http://www.dandjurdjevic.com/

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#408988 - 10/03/08 08:20 AM Re: Not THAT Shotokan!!! [Re: dandjurdjevic]
Barad Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 427
I thought you were Serbian-Australian?

Ben

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#408989 - 10/03/08 09:18 AM Re: Not THAT Shotokan!!! [Re: Barad]
dandjurdjevic Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/10/08
Posts: 844
Loc: Australia
Indeed. I'm a Serbian-Australian with a South African accent (I lived there from age 10 to 18).
_________________________
http://www.dandjurdjevic.com/

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#408990 - 10/03/08 09:40 AM Re: Not THAT Shotokan!!! [Re: dandjurdjevic]
Barad Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 427
Must get confusing!

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#408991 - 10/03/08 09:50 AM Re: Not THAT Shotokan!!! [Re: Shonuff]
Barad Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 427
Sho,

I cannot deny there is some impressively hard and skillful kumite going on there. However it is still long range against "karate" attacks, mostly using the standard Shotokan tools gzaku zuki and (high) mawashi geri. Excellent for stamina, timing and guts but IMO not in itself enough to be fight-effective for most people training this way. Like you, I have seen hundreds of people over the years aspiring to this but only a couple, perhaps like the people in those clips, who I truly believe could adapt to HAOV outside of tournament and dojo. Still a worthwhile discipline, as you say, depending on what you hope or expect to get out of it I suppose. I think the Japanese have peddled a lot of myths over the years about what Shotokan can do for you and what the movements mean, however.

Ben

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