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#408768 - 09/28/08 07:50 AM Do other types of training influence your BJJ?
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
Hello all.

I was reading a thread on another martial arts forum about a BJJ seminar.

The thread related to a Brazilian BJJ teacher who taught at a seminar. He didn't teach a lot of techniques in the seminar, but he spoke about positive mentality, relaxation, preparation and other issues about how BJJ is studied.

The author of the thread noted that a lot of what the instructor spoke of was similar to Internal Martial Arts training he had done.

Another poster commented that their BJJ instructor often cited Taijiquan as a system that was similar to BJJ in some ways.

Another poster commented that BJJ, when it first came to the worlds attention, changed the way a lot of other people trained in martial arts.

He said that he had found that it was a two way street though; that a lot of people were relating other things they studied (e.g. Yoga, Pilates, IMA) to their study of BJJ.

Have you done anything that has changed your approach to BJJ or influenced the way you study BJJ?
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#408769 - 09/28/08 09:41 AM Re: Do other types of training influence your BJJ? [Re: Prizewriter]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:


The thread related to a Brazilian BJJ teacher who taught at a seminar. He didn't teach a lot of techniques in the seminar, but he spoke about positive mentality, relaxation, preparation and other issues about how BJJ is studied.




I think that's great. IMO, this sort of thing isn't emphasized enough. The better clubs and schools would go a lot farther if a good atmosphere was established. In many cases, they neglect it and focus on cold, hard technique and sparring with the intention to win every round. In boxing, they often use the saying, "leave your ego at the door". In BJJ, that's paid lip service to or, it's "everyone else's" ego that should be checked, if you catch my meaning.

Quote:


Another poster commented that BJJ, when it first came to the worlds attention, changed the way a lot of other people trained in martial arts.





How could it not have? Very few people were training grappling or using "aliveness" (the real reason why BJJ fighters were so effective in the UFC) way back then. The success of those fighters forced the change in attitude, which has been great for the most part.


Quote:

Have you done anything that has changed your approach to BJJ or influenced the way you study BJJ?





The only thing that I've done is to have trained with a few guys from the West coast who imparted a more laid back approach to training. That makes training a lot of fun and a way to unwind and "play". That play attitude has done more for my technical ability than anything else and I owe it to guys like Chris Haueter and Matt Thornton who really preached that message.

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#408770 - 09/28/08 09:07 PM Re: Do other types of training influence your BJJ? [Re: JKogas]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
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Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
In a tactical sense, my BJJ training recently has changed a bit by the reality that certain BJJ techniques and tactics can make you vulnerable for certain things in street fighting. Training "alive" (I.E. with resistance and real contact) is huge, thats no different, but I tweak some of the BJJ techniques I do to prevent certain things from happening or I try to avoid certain things depending on the evnironment.

Same kind of thing with wrestling, I wrestled all through high school and then got into BJJ and realized that certain things you do in wrestling make you very vulnerable in BJJ (for example if someone gets on top of you in wrestling you're expected to give them your back-BIG no no in BJJ and the way you typically do a double leg takedown in wreslting can make you vulnerable to guillotine chokes which I in turn learned to do to wrestlers who tried to go at me under submission rules) so while there is lots of carry over you have to change things a bit.

Awhile back I did some hand to hand combat training with a fellow soldier, and we went live (all-in style). I got a good takedown on him and started for an armbar from side control and got my balls grabbed. I had practiced that armbar a ton and he took advantage of my very open balls. Second time around I got him with a choke and it worked great but I decided to take that nasty experience into consideration.

Another example is how a lot of guys in BJJ (me being one) like to spend time on their back in full guard, purposefully even, as there are some good things you can do from there, however in a street fight it's a good idea to get the heck off your back ASAP, unless the terrain isnt at all hazardous and focus on sprawling and blocking shots and staying upright rather than allowing it to go to the ground.

Another guy I wrestled with slammed me on my back when I had him in a good guillotine, and it was on dirt so it hurt quite a bit. If I could do it over I would've tried a sweep or an armbar.

Just some stuff to keep in mind. Different environments and "rule sets" change things a bit imo.
Not to mention grappling with strikes as opposed to not using strikes, makes you watch out a little more or else get clocked.

Marines train in BJJ as part of their hand to hand training and one thing they'll do is have the instructor toss a weapon near by as the guys are rolling and they have to go for it. Changes the approach taken a bit I think.


Edited by Stormdragon (09/28/08 09:10 PM)
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#408771 - 09/29/08 04:35 AM Re: Do other types of training influence your BJJ? [Re: Prizewriter]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Good question PW. From a personal perspective, I have recently been surprised how many martial artists I know do Yoga on the side. Both the head of my TKD org and my instructor are yoga practitioners, and say that while it has not helped them kick any higher, it has helped them keep old injuries at bay.

But personally, I think yoga shows amazing potential in grappling, where it is directly applicable. To play the rubber guard, or just to get into positions like mission control or gogoplaters, you need a significant amount of flexibility; in the case of grappling static flexibility is perfectly effective because you can use your arms to control your legs and feet.

So I think yoga could offer great improvements to grapplers. Unfortunately, I do not do it myself, but trying to fit it in between TKD, judo, the gym and studying politics and Russian is a tad difficult

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#408772 - 09/29/08 07:42 AM Re: Do other types of training influence your BJJ? [Re: Supremor]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Stormdragon...


Just out of curiosity (with apologies for thread drift), but how in God's NAME does someone grab your balls when you are going for an armbar? Did you not establish dominant position first or something? Sounds like a you made a fundamental error somewhere.

I know you said you were in side control, but I'm just curious to see how you were doing it. I've been training since 1995 and that's NEVER been even remotely close to happening.

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#408773 - 09/29/08 03:51 PM Re: Do other types of training influence your BJJ? [Re: JKogas]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
Relating to main thread, I seen the Incredible Hulk the other night. Rickson Gracie (think it was Rickson) had a cameo. He was showing Bruce Banner (Ed Norton) Jiu Jitsu. He was also showing him how to breath to control his mind and body...

I went on to youtube and found this clip of Rickson talking about yoga, meditation, and prayer, amongest other things. It is what I was referring to in the thread, how other things can change your approach to BJJ (and grappling I suppose).

Supermor makes a good point about yoga and grappling. I was reading and article on Astanga Yoga, and it mentioned that the Astanga Yogi moves from one posture to the next in a dynamic, flowing manner. Apparently, one of the main influences in Astanga development came from folk wrestling in India.

Ball Grab from side control... how long must that guys arms be!!!!??
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#408774 - 10/04/08 08:55 PM Re: Do other types of training influence your BJJ? [Re: JKogas]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Quote:

Stormdragon...


Just out of curiosity (with apologies for thread drift), but how in God's NAME does someone grab your balls when you are going for an armbar? Did you not establish dominant position first or something? Sounds like a you made a fundamental error somewhere.

I know you said you were in side control, but I'm just curious to see how you were doing it. I've been training since 1995 and that's NEVER been even remotely close to happening.




You would think that but in the armbar I tried there is a brief moment of vulnerablility that can be potentially exploited and in my case was. It was the only time thats every happend to me but I definitely learned to watch out.

This is how I did it and between :10 and :12 there is an opening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y9dGvkDeKM

Most people wouldnt catch it in time but the guy I rolled with when that happend to me noticed it and got me (granted he had been a self defense instructor before becoming an EMT). The next time around I got him in a good keylock after dropping some palm strikes to his head and then a different armbar but that bugged me. I may have not been fluid enough with my execution or something giving him an easy chance though.

Another time I rolled with a recruiter friend of mine who had served in the 10th mountain division and did lots of combatives and got him with a perfect execution of the armbar showed in the video. Felt pretty good after that (although he hadn't been training much in a few years being a recruiter).
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#408775 - 11/17/08 08:01 PM Re: Do other types of training influence your BJJ? [Re: Stormdragon]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Stormdragon wrote
Quote:

You would think that but in the armbar I tried there is a brief moment of vulnerablility that can be potentially exploited and in my case was. It was the only time thats every happend to me but I definitely learned to watch out.

This is how I did it and between :10 and :12 there is an opening.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y9dGvkDeKM





I see what you're getting at now.


Quote:


Most people wouldnt catch it in time but the guy I rolled with when that happend to me noticed it and got me (granted he had been a self defense instructor before becoming an EMT). The next time around I got him in a good keylock after dropping some palm strikes to his head and then a different armbar but that bugged me. I may have not been fluid enough with my execution or something giving him an easy chance though.

Another time I rolled with a recruiter friend of mine who had served in the 10th mountain division and did lots of combatives and got him with a perfect execution of the armbar showed in the video. Felt pretty good after that (although he hadn't been training much in a few years being a recruiter).






The thing to remember in all of this is, anything is possible. However, that's why you train. If you have positional dominance over an opponent, nothing is going to stop YOU from doing the same thing to him.

Of course, I believe that you should definitely train for these sorts of "street" things. I guess because I always have, I know when and where I'm vulnerable. If I am doing "self-defense" training, I'm avoiding doing anything like that to begin with. I would not go for a lot of submissions on the ground in a street fight. Many times when you attempt them, you sacrifice good position when you do so. You could end up on your back and that's not a good scene at all.

However the Kimura or a choke would be two attacks that I might attempt, depending. The Kimura being a nice one because you can remain in a top position as you attempt it. Plus, untrained guys tend to give it up easily, straight away.

Normally the way *I* like get into the Kimura from side control, occurs from when my opponent is facing away from me (I move to the back). I drop the knee down over the arm and there is no real chance of that happening.

Again, for self-defense, my advice would be to maintain position and not force a submission. Positioning and transitioning to maintain control would be my top priority. Then my opponent's movements would dictate what happened beyond that (they would basically "fall into" a submission of some sort, in other words). Don't know if that makes any sense, but that's the way I see things. Just my opinions.

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