FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 36 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
AndyLA, danacohenn, ksusanc, kellypnik123, leyinn
22904 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Dobbersky 14
cxt 7
trevek 6
JKogas 5
futsaowingchun 3
July
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31
New Topics
Applied center line theory
by futsaowingchun
07/28/14 08:55 AM
centerline concepts
by futsaowingchun
07/14/14 10:49 PM
language of syllabus
by trevek
07/11/14 03:36 PM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:14 AM
Anderson Silva - Leg Break
by Dobbersky
12/30/13 08:32 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
Gi or no Gi Grappling?
by Prizewriter
04/16/12 02:48 PM
MMA - A passing Fad
by Dobbersky
04/12/12 11:16 AM
Throwing
by
04/23/05 10:58 PM
Recent Posts
Gi or no Gi Grappling?
by Dobbersky
Yesterday at 05:11 AM
Applied center line theory
by futsaowingchun
07/28/14 08:55 AM
centerline concepts
by futsaowingchun
07/28/14 08:53 AM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by cxt
07/24/14 11:35 AM
language of syllabus
by trevek
07/14/14 04:50 PM
MMA - A passing Fad
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:35 AM
Anderson Silva - Leg Break
by Dobbersky
07/09/14 06:13 AM
Throwing
by JKogas
07/03/14 07:40 PM
Forum Stats
22904 Members
36 Forums
35564 Topics
432455 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 7 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Topic Options
#408667 - 01/29/09 08:57 PM Re: Top Ten Aussie (RBSD) Instructors [Re: Triddle]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
G'day Triddle

Your right no replication will ever be at the same level as actual experience.

Quite often this is used as an argument against RBSD scenario training. and they are right. but this type of training is still the closest we can come to actual reality.

Training for any endeavor cannot provide the experience of participating in the actual endeavor. The only thing that is real is that which is real.

Now there are plenty of studies that support the notion that imagining doing something contributes significantly to the ability to perform that something in reality. This is one of the reasons MMA training does prove to be effective on the street, simply put the training is extrapolated to apply beyond the Mat to the street. I have never denied that TMA or MMA can be effectively used on the street, I only argue that RBSD provides a more direct, path. after all Our training is more closely related to the arena we are training for (ie real life). because we include the behaviour (etc) aspects of real life violence then the gap we have to imagine or extrapolate across is considerably less.

RBSD doesn't take there approach just to be different to what else in on offer. It is firmly based and supported by learning theory. you see material will be recalled better (ie quicker, more completely and accurately) when it is learned under similar conditions too which it will be recalled.

the conditions under which it is recalled is different for RBSD then for MMA (for eg). for RBSD the conditions are being attacked in your real world, for MMA it is fighting another person for victory.

I do not claim that RBSD training is going to produce a better MMA fighter, the training is directed towards different arenas and different outcomes. Yet How often do you hear MMA practitioners claim that MMA training prepares you just as well as RBSD training for the real world.

The theories and empirical evidence tells us differently.
_________________________
Sumo Pacis (Choose Peace)

With Honour in Bushido
Drew Guest
www.ToowoombaSelfDefence.websyte.com.au
Bushi Dojos Self Protection
Toowoomba Self Defence

Top
#408668 - 02/03/09 01:57 PM Re: Top Ten Aussie (RBSD) Instructors [Re: drgndrew]
Olderman Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 51
Quote:







The only thing that is real is that which is real.




So I assume the next best thing will be as close to reality as can be got.
Quote:


Now there are plenty of studies that support the notion that imagining doing something contributes significantly to the ability to perform that something in reality.


This is one of the reasons MMA training does prove to be effective on the street, simply put the training is extrapolated to apply beyond the Mat to the street. I have never denied that TMA or MMA can be effectively used on the street, I only argue that RBSD provides a more direct, path. after all Our training is more closely related to the arena we are training for (ie real life). because we include the behaviour (etc) aspects of real life violence then the gap we have to imagine or extrapolate across is considerably less.

RBSD doesn't take there approach just to be different to what else in on offer. It is firmly based and supported by learning theory. you see material will be recalled better (ie quicker, more completely and accurately) when it is learned under similar conditions too which it will be recalled.

the conditions under which it is recalled is different for RBSD then for MMA (for eg). for RBSD the conditions are being attacked in your real world, for MMA it is fighting another person for victory.

I do not claim that RBSD training is going to produce a better MMA fighter, the training is directed towards different arenas and different outcomes. Yet How often do you hear MMA practitioners claim that MMA training prepares you just as well as RBSD training for the real world.

The theories and empirical evidence tells us differently.




I think;
If it S/D in a pub/ night club than the training should take place in a pub/ night club environment.
If it is on the street then the training should take place on a street environment e.g outside on a hardened surface.
That is something I have been doing in the cold.
Although not running I have taken to doing pad work/ partner work outside.
Forget lower body take downs and some of the stuff that is taught on a nice warm floor/ mat.
Ever tried rolling about or throwing strikes on a hard surface with bricks and dirt present?
I had forgotten what it was like.

The things/ ground etc are going to be used a weapons.


So if anything is reality based then I think reality is what it should be.

Street S/D takes place on the street.

Alternative method of training.

Drill basics in a nice warm dojo/ training hall /mat area.
When the basics are ok then sparring/ live grappling.
Beyond that reality is going to be subject to where the reality is meant to be.
While in a way I can see the point of natural techniques that in some cases aren't drilled you have to admit that they will be very, very basic and easy countered by someone who has taken things further.

So all in all I think things are back to basic training with lots of reps.
Yes I can see the use of the behavior part of the training.
I myself sometimes forget what people can really be like namely because of age etc I don't frequent places where such situations take place.
I observe them being done by other people at a distance sometimes but tend to avoid such things.

Top
#408669 - 02/03/09 03:07 PM Re: Top Ten Aussie (RBSD) Instructors [Re: drgndrew]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

I only argue that RBSD provides a more direct, path. after all Our training is more closely related to the arena we are training for (ie real life). because we include the behaviour (etc) aspects of real life violence then the gap we have to imagine or extrapolate across is considerably less.





See this makes the assumption that others don't train in street defense, and for me that just isn't the case it was a big part of my training, maybe your point holds for TMA on the whole, but I can't speak to that.

It also assumes that RBSD, knows something that others don't know. It comes off a bit arrogant to me. I see RBSD as simply a portion of training, an application. I also take issue with the idea of direct path, rings of shortcut to me. I see martial arts as a life long endevor and am turned off by anyone who looks to collapse the time of study, I think it leads people to believe they are capable of things they are not.

The old saying is Martial Arts is like boiling water, as soon as you remove the heat it begins to cool. The whole concept of RSBD seems to imply you learn it, and your done. And even if that is not they way it is, in practice that what I have seen, low time in training and high turnover. At least in TMA it's usually understood it will take years to become any good (and that would be because it does).

Are there things you can learn quickly and become better quickly, sure there are, but only very basic things and general awareness.

You mentioned earlier that most instructors are MA's from different disciplines, well that's great and true in my experience, but they are not giving that full background the the students they are teaching now are they? So how are the students supposed to attain the same level of skill?

One last thing you mentioned, when in the moment muscle memory tends to degrade. Couldn't be more untrue, skill and execution might degrade, you may only perform at a percentage of your ability when under a no stress situation, but the muscle memory will take over, good or bad. Tons of documentation on this, ever hear about the trainer who disarmed an attacker with a knife, and then handed the knife right back to the guy? Why? Because over the years of training others, he always handed the knife back to the student to demonstrate again. You see the same thing in combat, soldiers under fire will do everything they way they trained when it comes to certain types of moves, if they always drilled with the safety on, they will forget to take it off when under stress, because of muscle memory.

Street violence is unpredictable, and I think RBSD is on the right track in terms of getting people into the right mindset, but they need to lose all that quick learn microwave teaching stuff, there are no shortcuts in anything worth learning.
_________________________
Undefeated in all of Asia!

Top
#408670 - 02/04/09 06:33 AM Re: Top Ten Aussie (RBSD) Instructors [Re: Olderman]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
Quote:



I think;
If it S/D in a pub/ night club than the training should take place in a pub/ night club environment.
If it is on the street then the training should take place on a street environment e.g outside on a hardened surface.




I 100% agree mate, but it simply is not practical or possible to be able to do that for every training session. Can you imagine the cost of hiring a bar for a couple of hours, it's good to hire them (when you can) and run seminars specifically addressing pub environments. but not for a regular training class.

The problem with training scenarios in the street is that it almost always attracts the attention of the local police. nothing wrong with this it's just that it wastes their time and some municipal counsels frown upon it.

It is a good idea to training in the exact environment and conditions that you are training for. It's just not practical to do it all the time, but fortunately we do have an imagination and we can closely replicate the behavioural aspect even if we have to use a bit of imagination to put us in the location.


Quote:


That is something I have been doing in the cold.
Although not running I have taken to doing pad work/ partner work outside.




This is a great idea, we do this occasionally. Even the Tradition arts do this sometimes, though they usually use it as a spirit development exercise rather then an acclimatisation to alternate environments (eg training in the snow). so do Sporting MAs though they usually to it to increase the intensity of the training (eg beach training dune running)

As you probably have noticed the environment does have an impact on the training, both physically (terrain/ground surface) and psychologically


Quote:


Forget lower body take downs and some of the stuff that is taught on a nice warm floor/ mat.
Ever tried rolling about or throwing strikes on a hard surface with bricks and dirt present?
I had forgotten what it was like.

The things/ ground etc are going to be used a weapons.





Yep, thats why it is important to not become to comfortable on the mat if your also training for Self defence. It's a good idea to have a separate street toolbox (along with your usual MMA or TMA toolbox) chances are they will share many tools but the SD toolbox for eg would contain techniques appropriate for the street and the conditions it may contain "illegal" techniques that would not be included in you MMA toolbox.

It sounds like a lot of effort but it isn't really it's actually quite an easy way of ensuring a seperation exist between street, sporting and TMA. (remember I don't adhere to the rule of either or, all three compliment each other. I just put RBSD as the first priority.

Quote:


So if anything is reality based then I think reality is what it should be.

Street S/D takes place on the street.



Agreed but it is based on reality, it's not actually reality, but a method of preparation for it. just like university isn't actually the profession. Ideally you practice in the exact spot and under the exact conditions that you are going to be attacked, the problem is we don't select those things the attacker does and it is impossible to replicate every possible environment and condition.

we can only train for the the situations likely to occur BASED on what happens in reality AND based on the reality of the individual.

Quote:



Alternative method of training.

Drill basics in a nice warm dojo/ training hall /mat area.
When the basics are ok then sparring/ live grappling.
Beyond that reality is going to be subject to where the reality is meant to be.





Not just where but also how, why, when, who, what. Including the different BEP for each

Quote:


While in a way I can see the point of natural techniques that in some cases aren't drilled you have to admit that they will be very, very basic and easy countered by someone who has taken things further.




Yes and no, using a behavioural delivery system does make a big difference. for eg, delivering an aggressive strike combo from a submissive posture. This tactic uses incongruent body language and verbal (opposite Behaviour) to
deliver a more effective strike. The human mind works off reference and logical patterns it will regularly complete a pattern prior to it's completion, if that pattern suddenly changes then the person must readjust. This is a blink in time where the attacker is vulnerable, a simple straight forward and natural technique will have a significantly greater chance of success.

please don't think I rely purely on the Pre-school developed techniques. these are just the first techniques used so that the individual will gain the fastest increase in SD ability in the shortest time. After this I do introduce "techniques" which can be applied directly and instantly to the behavioural tactics and concepts.


Quote:




So all in all I think things are back to basic training with lots of reps.




I don't disagree, I just recommend throwing in the Behavioural aspect as well.

Quote:


Yes I can see the use of the behavior part of the training.
I myself sometimes forget what people can really be like namely because of age etc I don't frequent places where such situations take place.



Those sort of places aren't the only times you need to be able to defend yourself. Usually when people say street the pup fight scenario springs to mind, and yes it is a common environment for violence. by not not frequenting these places you reduce the chance of facing violence considerably.

But we have to remember that violence can and does happen anywhere. the workplace, at home, on the sporting field, at school, in shopping centers, car parks, parks, beaches and the list goes on. It can happen anywhere. When ever I refer to street all I mean is not in the training place, I'm not literally (or solely) referring to the street or pavement


Quote:


I observe them being done by other people at a distance sometimes but tend to avoid such things.



sounds like a good tactic to me.


I 'm not here to try to convert other practicing Martial artist to RBSD, My believe is that a class dedicated purely to RBSD is better for the average, beginner student who is looking for self defence. I do believe that aspects of RBSD training can be incorporated into Sporting and TMA training, to provide an even better link to real world self defence, but I'm not trying to convince MA'ists to give up their current system and take up RBSD. for eg the scenario training can very easily be incorporated into any other method of training. I honestly believe a unity in all MA. whether sports based Traditional based or reality based. each have something to offer, and these things don't have to interfere with the others.

Well Thats My thoughts anyway.
_________________________
Sumo Pacis (Choose Peace)

With Honour in Bushido
Drew Guest
www.ToowoombaSelfDefence.websyte.com.au
Bushi Dojos Self Protection
Toowoomba Self Defence

Top
#408671 - 02/04/09 08:48 AM Re: Top Ten Aussie (RBSD) Instructors [Re: Kimo2007]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
G'day Kimo

Quote:

Quote:

I only argue that RBSD provides a more direct, path. after all Our training is more closely related to the arena we are training for (ie real life). because we include the behaviour (etc) aspects of real life violence then the gap we have to imagine or extrapolate across is considerably less.





See this makes the assumption that others don't train in street defense, and for me that just isn't the case it was a big part of my training, maybe your point holds for TMA on the whole, but I can't speak to that.




I am talking generally Mate, I believe or wish to imply that all clubs (or styles) are the same. My personal experience in TMA is one that has a very significant Street element in it's curriculum. there will always be exceptions to the rule.

I my self may be a bit guilty of talking about My person approach to RBSD as being the general norm, I'm sure there are plenty of RBSD clubs out there that are nothing like what I consider to be RBSD.

Quote:


It also assumes that RBSD, knows something that others don't know. It comes off a bit arrogant to me.





it might come off as arrogant, but frankly RBSD does provide for things that MOST other sporting and TMA do not or even acknowledge. Personally I find it more arrogant that sporting systems refuse to believe there is a better way to prepare for real world violence when the their sole purpose is to produce competition fighters. You don't here RBSD guys constantly claiming that they would wipe the floor with an MMA practitioner or a kick boxer in a sporting event do you. it's not arrogance to point out a deficit in preparation for a specific aspect, it is arrogant however to claim superiority in an arena that is not their focus or that is not specifically trained for. No?

Hey I'm not saying that every MMA'st is like this but arrogance is using success in one arena to prove superiority in another and frankly this is more common in MMA then the reverse in RBSD

If you want to train for a one on one, no holds barred full contact fight then I will send you to an MMA gym and you will be better prepared for that event. But if you want real life self protection skills that takes into account ALL the element of real world violence then I will recommend RBSD. if you want to develop yourself in character and mind, body. and you want more then just a sport or a self defence system then I will hook you up with the local TMA that best suits your requirements.

Quote:


I see RBSD as simply a portion of training, an application. I also take issue with the idea of direct path, rings of shortcut to me. I see martial arts as a life long endevor and am turned off by anyone who looks to collapse the time of study, I think it leads people to believe they are capable of things they are not.





I have similar views, believe it or not. the difference is that my approach first shows someone how to apply what they have, in the behavioural setting of real world violence, I then move on to improve the skills. I do not believe that a person should train for three years before they are considered effective, I produce effectiveness first and then work at improving it.

I have never claimed that RBSD is better then any martial arts over the long run. it is the beginning stages that differs in my approach.

Instead of teaching a technique and have the person drill it over and over and then learn how to apply it in a real energy situation, I do it the other way around, they may only at first be apple to apply the untrained natural weapons to a real energy attack, then we learn new techniques and drill them, this way when they learn they can apply it straight away. RBSD provide the means to defend yourself first up and then helps you build the tools. where as TMA tend to build the tools and then introduce the means to apply them, Sporting MMA is quicker then TMA as it tends to teach the tool and application pretty close together but the arena is specific to competition and fighting there is no or little behavioural aspect other then the physical skill set.

As for it being a shortcut well I guess it is compared to the alternatives, but it isn't cutting corners it is simply specialised training to produce specialised results. MMA produces fighters more quickly then TMA, but no-one is claiming it to be a short cut., MMA achieves this by specialised training for specific outcomes.

Quote:


The old saying is Martial Arts is like boiling water, as soon as you remove the heat it begins to cool. The whole concept of RSBD seems to imply you learn it, and your done. And even if that is not they way it is, in practice that what I have seen, low time in training and high turnover. At least in TMA it's usually understood it will take years to become any good (and that would be because it does).




Well you can boil water by applying direct heat, by fire or resistance of electricity, One is more efficient at boiling the water, you can also boil water but pressure and by the agitation of it's molecules via electro magnetic waves. You can add stuff to water to make it boil at a lower temperature and or even a higher temperature.

The boiling water shouldn't be the focus, the reason why you want the water to boil should, that in turn will to a large degree determine how to boil the water.

Once the water is boiling you do not need to apply as much heat to restart the boil (compared to starting with cold water.)

But you are spot on you do have to continue to add heat to the water to continue (or maintain pressure). RBSD doesn't promise a one stop fix, at least I don't and nor do the systems I've studied. I can see how your perception can come about. but we are realists and we know that you need to regularly reinforce learning in order for you to recall it easier. We never really forget but practice does enable better recall.

when a student gets to the stage of effectiveness this is a good time to introduce them to MMA, MMA training enables you to maintain the boil if you like because of the behavioural encoding of the RBSD training recall becomes easier under real life attack situations. Those natural type , gross motor, easy to learn techniques do not need to be reinforced as much as newly learned techniques, but I still encourage regular updating to grease the groove.

also to be effective in self defence doesn't need as much reinforcement as being effective in MMA, the different behavioural aspects enable this.

As for High turnover It isn't any greater then any TMA system. For me this is even more reason to provide effective skills as quickly as possible, this way if the person does give up early at least they have something to use.


Quote:


Are there things you can learn quickly and become better quickly, sure there are, but only very basic things and general awareness.




you only need very basic things to defend yourself, and these basic things being easy to learn mean they are more readily recalled.

Quote:


You mentioned earlier that most instructors are MA's from different disciplines, well that's great and true in my experience, but they are not giving that full background the the students they are teaching now are they? So how are the students supposed to attain the same level of skill?




Well it comes down to specialisation again. They only teach them the stuff needed for the goals not everything they learn, they chip are the unnecessary to provide the core. This is what MMA has done with TMA.

We also have to define skill it is they are aiming for if it is the skill the instructors have as a martial artist then they will have to train the arts they trained in, if it is for pure self defence then they only need to train those aspects of the TMAs that contribute to effective self defence in the real world.


we have to remember that RBSD is still fairly young the founders of the movement are still actively teaching, these are the guys that saw a deficit in TMA and sporting MA's and researched a better way for real world self defence. they do not teach there original systems (well some do but not as RBSD) they teach aspects of them that are relevant to RBSD.


Quote:


One last thing you mentioned, when in the moment muscle memory tends to degrade. Couldn't be more untrue, skill and execution might degrade, you may only perform at a percentage of your ability when under a no stress situation, but the muscle memory will take over, good or bad. Tons of documentation on this, ever hear about the trainer who disarmed an attacker with a knife, and then handed the knife right back to the guy? Why? Because over the years of training others, he always handed the knife back to the student to demonstrate again. You see the same thing in combat, soldiers under fire will do everything they way they trained when it comes to certain types of moves, if they always drilled with the safety on, they will forget to take it off when under stress, because of muscle memory.




Highly trained skills, trained under the influence of the conditions of combat can become gross motor like, it is true that these do not deteriorate as much as as skills learned under "normal" conditions. Thats because they have been embedded under high stress conditions. in a sense they become natural under those conditions. if they are trained with out the stress they will deteriorate just like any other learned skill. for eg you don't need to think about how to tie your laces, It's a skill that has been practiced and reinforced very regularly. how ever under acute stress you will have great difficulty tying your laces. Why because you have not learned to tie your shoes under extreme stress.

BTW the story about the instructor handing the knife back is a myth

Quote:


Street violence is unpredictable, and I think RBSD is on the right track in terms of getting people into the right mindset, but they need to lose all that quick learn microwave teaching stuff, there are no shortcuts in anything worth learning.




Again it's not a short cut it is specialised specific training. specialised training for a specific outcome will produce effective performance in that outcome quicker then general or non specialised training.


this is what I recommend to students

Learn RBSD first then move on to either MMA or TMA depending on your preferences. by doing RBSD first the student earns confidence and a effective knowledge of and effectiveness in self protection and is now free to explore the many other aspects of the Martial arts whether sporting traditional or both.

It doesn't have to be either-or
_________________________
Sumo Pacis (Choose Peace)

With Honour in Bushido
Drew Guest
www.ToowoombaSelfDefence.websyte.com.au
Bushi Dojos Self Protection
Toowoomba Self Defence

Top
#408672 - 02/05/09 02:15 AM Re: Top Ten Aussie (RBSD) Instructors [Re: drgndrew]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Hi Drew,

I can't say that I agree with everything in your post mate, but I just wanted to say that I thought that it was an extremely lucid and constructive post. I think all the way through this thread you've done a top job at presenting your training rationale and justification behind it in a clear and objective manner... I've enjoyed reading it!

Cheers,

Gav
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

Top
#408673 - 02/05/09 04:17 AM Re: Top Ten Aussie (RBSD) Instructors [Re: Gavin]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
Thanks for that Gavin, I really appreciate that mate.

I don't mind if people disagree with what I think or say, I use it as a feedback system to point out areas that I should be either looking at changing or reconfirming.

Different ideas and believes enable us to grow and improve. simple put. improvement is a change and you can't have change unless there is something that is different.

I'm pretty sure I sometimes come across a little preachy (with regards to RBSD), it's not intended I just state things that I have discovered to be true. If I'm shown a different way then thats an opportunity for me to explore a possible source of improvement. For eg , from this discussion alone I have decided that my students could benefit with a little more technique application drilling, just like you would drill a mount escape over and over again.

I don't want to "convert" everyone to My RBSD way, but hopefully I can provide something that can be used to improve someones training outcomes.

As good ol' Bruce Lee said "take what is useful, discard what is not"

Thanks to all who have participated, it was refreshing to have a civilized discussion rather then an argument about these things.
_________________________
Sumo Pacis (Choose Peace)

With Honour in Bushido
Drew Guest
www.ToowoombaSelfDefence.websyte.com.au
Bushi Dojos Self Protection
Toowoomba Self Defence

Top
Page 7 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7


Moderator:  Cord, Dedicated1, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Self Defense
Offering stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and other self defense products not available in stores.

Pepper Spray
Online distributor of self defense supplies like videos, stun guns, Tasers and more.

Spy Cameras
Surveillance, Hidden Cameras, Nanny Cams, Digital Recorders, Spy Equipment, Pocket DVR's and more

Stun Gun
Wholesale Directlhy to the Public! Stun gun and Taser Guns and personal protection products. Keep your loved ones at home safe!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga