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#408657 - 01/26/09 11:31 AM Re: Top Ten Aussie (RBSD) Instructors [Re: drgndrew]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
Drew, there is a lot to speak to here, but I chose to focus on a few points.

Quote:

Could you give me examples of how "TMA and combat sports offer methods of becoming aware of imiment attacks, or aggresive behavior" and how they are better or on par.




Well, to begin with, as I said, I'm not saying what is 'better'. 'Better' is in the eyes of the beholder.

Combat sports help make you aware of imminent danger and threats, an aggressive behavior, because you are forced to deal with it on a regular basis and you get used to the physical cues that an attack is coming.

Trying to speak about 'TMA' as a whole is difficult as far as this is concerned, due to the fact that TMA encompasses many divergent disciplines.

But the short answer is that a core component in many TMA is the idea of an uke attacking with 'intent'. As you progress, the idea is to develop sensitivity to the attacker, both in a direct physical way, as well as a more subtle mental way. For me to go into the science of this is impossible, as I've never read a study on it. But I can go my experience and say that TMA and combat sports do seem to engender a 'Spidey Sense' about forthcoming danger, that is if the person pays attention to their surroundings.

Quote:

in the long run I agree (again providing the TMA is a street effective system) in the short run I disagree.




I think it is true that most TMA folks initially have less idea about the surrounding issues of violence, because their training does not directly deal with that from the start. But what it should give them (again, I'm assuming the best here) is a good physical skill set.

Quote:

Muscle memory deteriorates with stress. Thatís one reason you see people throwing wild punches when they have been trained to throw tight. Itís not needing to unlearn but learning new better ways.





And through good, regular training you should feel less stress when the situation arises then you would otherwise.

Quote:

See I donít believe that, there is a quicker way, via specialisation.





A quicker way in what sense? To become aware of the theory of violence through direct information about it? Yes, I agree with that.

But a quicker way to developing a good basic skill set? I would need to see some proof of that.

What I'm saying is that, no matter what, it always takes time to develop a core set of physical skills. And then it takes longer to make them second nature.

Quote:

Very usable, the basics are condensed easy to learn and natural to perform under stress, we donít learn technique and then learn application we learn both at the same time concentrating on application, technique can be perfected over time. In the mean time even bad technique can be effective if it can be applied.




To me, this seems no different from most (good) TMA or MMA with a self defense bent. I know that most JMA, especially the classical arts, are traditionally taught in this way.

The thing is, no matter what it takes time to perfect technique. The better your technique is, the better chance you have of surviving.

Quote:

My personal approach is one of first bringing to the surface and enabling a person to use there natural defensive and offensive abilities (most of which we learn and develop well before kindergarten, some before birth) these are our in build instinctual defence mechanisms that have evolved over the life time of our species and even before we became human.




I'm not going to speak for all arts here, because I haven't studied all of them. But I would like to reference this to Aikido, if I may. The thing is, Aikido (at least the Yoshinkan style), trains this very thing as well. Most of it is premised off of using the flinch mechanism. To demonstrate, here is Tony Blaur discussing his 'spear system', and using the 'spear'.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=--74CtXS6Y4&feature=related

Now please watch at 1:42 of this video:

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=urZChurQIp8

we call that 'elbow power number 1', and although not a catchy name, it is used in exactly the same way as the spear in many techniques, and it works with the flinch, startle response very well (I can say this from experience). In essence, it is the exact same thing, and is trained from day one until you stop attending class. Many of the first techniques you learn are based off this 'entering' movement.

Quote:

Jimís (Wagner) material is rather good, But I fully understand the advertising/marketing thing. It may very well be different outside of OZ. RBSD is still very young down here, where as in The UK and the US it is at least 10 years older and far more wide spread.




His material might be good, but his advertising is ridiculous. I've actually read an article in Black Belt (I think it was) where you shows how to survive a dirty nuke. I've also read an article where you demonstrates anti-grappling and it was very much sub-par.

My main problem with Wagner, aside from his need to inflate his military/leo background, is that he caters to fear and paranoia. Rather than decreasing stress, this type of behavior tends to increase it.

Quote:


Same mountain different path.




I agree, and that's really all I'm saying.

--Chris
_________________________
"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."
--Basho

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#408658 - 01/26/09 06:15 PM Re: Top Ten Aussie (RBSD) Instructors [Re: drgndrew]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
You know, when it all comes down the line, all you need is a really hard punch, a good clinch, a strong headlock and/or decent standing choke hold, and a good headbutt and the confidence to use any and all of them before things get out of hand.

You cant learn to 'read' aggressive dangerous people by dealing with others 'pretending' to be dangerous aggressive people. You cant ask a nice guy, who is in a class to learn to deal with an element of society he fears, to become that element with any conviction- its a different headspace, and a different motivation. Then you have to add alcohol and drugs to the mix.

Getting someone to pad up and go 'grrr you spilled my pint' relies on stereotypical behaviour projected from our psyche. Whilst you do get 'fronting' and verbal aggression, this is often used instead of physical violence- plenty of lads shouting alsorts of threats at each other from a safe distance is very common . When it comes to guys who really want to smack you, they tend to just do it.

You asked for my experience and that is it- time and time again, picking guys off the floor with blood all over their faces, who have no clue as to what happened or why.

Same thing when breaking up a scuffle and trying to find out what happened- tearful Girlfriends saying 'we were just laughing and he came out of nowhere...'

Sure the verbal stuff can escalate, and its best to knock it on the head, but if someone is shouting, they are not hitting.

I believe in having solid physical strength and skills, combined with a mindset that will allow you to use them, in a ring, or in a pub, with no hesitation.
The rest is all just 'blah blah blah'
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#408659 - 01/26/09 08:50 PM Re: Top Ten Aussie (RBSD) Instructors [Re: Ames]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
G'day Chris. ( I'm going to be quick as I really should be working on other stuff at the moment )

I say RBSD does it better BECAUSE it is specialised. specialisation results in quicker, and more effective ability in the item/action being specialised under the conditions that the spcialisation operates.

We specialise in defending violence as it happens on the street, this is not just a guess or based on 1 persons experience it is a cumulative result of empirical evidence and experience of many, not just those on the front line such as LEO and Door-persons, but also victims of violence, survivors, and victim statements, medical reports etc etc

It is Better at providing real world solutions to violence and it does it in a shorter period of time. Not that it is better then TMA overall.

Combat sports and TMA do provide familiarization of the physical aspects of violence, and as such to provide a better ability to handle to fear and stress involved with being physically harmed.

BUT, we are not just physical beings we are behavioural emotional psychological and physical beings ( you could through spiritual in there to I f you want through it is sort of covered by the BEP). Violence is also BEP and physical not just physical, in reality BEP of violence cannont be separated from the physical violence.

This is where RBSD (as i teach it) provides the quicker self defence readiness and it is related to specialisation. You see fear and stress is stimulus specific, the BEP of real violence provides a different stimulus to the BEP of combat sport and traditional MA training. Yes full contact sporting MA does very effectively provide immunization (or at least familiarization) with the fear of physical violence (pain injury, physical harm etc). I don't doubt that and indeed Vouch for it.

However the TMA and Sport MA, training methods do little to deal with the different BEP of real world violence, they deal with the BEP of sport arena and the BEP of the Dojo Training, eventually the gap will close with more and more experience and more understanding.

What RBSD does is to provide for the BEP and Physical aspects of Real World Violence (RWV) straight from the get go. provide natural weapons and concepts to effectively apply those weapons under RWV conditions.

Instead of building up a skill base first (we still do build a skill base) we provide the ability to deliver any skill they already have to RWV, that way every skill or technique that they acquire after this can be directly applied to RWV.

RBSD Sport and TMA are oriented towards different arenas, as a result they are better able to equip the student for the BEP of violence in context with that arena. Each is better at what it does, and there is most definitely a cross over any Martial artist "should' perform better in RWV then someone with no training what so ever, same as in the ring any MA training will be better then nothing etc. but for the ring I would recommend Sport MA, for the street I would say RBSD.

A good basic skill set is not required for effective self defence...desired but not required, this is supported by the thousands of cases of untrained victims fighting off larger, seemingly more able attackers. What makes something effective is the ability to apply it under specific conditions (ie In the ring on the street, etc).


by the way
Quote:

Now please watch at 1:42 of this video:

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=urZChurQIp8 />



This video is nothing like the SPEAR, other then it is an entry method, it may be triggered off the flinch but that does not make it a SPEAR.

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#408660 - 01/26/09 08:55 PM Re: Top Ten Aussie (RBSD) Instructors [Re: Cord]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
Hey Cord,
If that approach works for you then that approach is right for you.

but what about when you first started, before you had strength and skill.

Will your approach suit every one, what about someones Mum or little sister, or the feminine high school male, with noe self esteme.

Your approach works I do not deny that, but it takes time to get to that level. Why not provide something that can be used straight away with out months of training. that will be added to by the training following.

someone with 10 years on the door will most definately be able to defend them selves better then most, even with no additional training. but a door vet has different experiences and developed different attributes and psych to the average person.

just my thoughts.


PS when i support RBSD, my perspective is always from a beginners point of view, not mine. From self defence and not a street fight.


Edited by drgndrew (01/26/09 09:00 PM)
_________________________
Sumo Pacis (Choose Peace)

With Honour in Bushido
Drew Guest
www.ToowoombaSelfDefence.websyte.com.au
Bushi Dojos Self Protection
Toowoomba Self Defence

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#408661 - 01/27/09 12:01 AM Re: Top Ten Aussie (RBSD) Instructors [Re: drgndrew]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
I always had strength. I doubt I have significant skill per se, to this day, but I work with what I have got.

My point is, that in intellectualising this stuff, you can end up 'over egging the pudding'.

You have to understand that, no matter what you do with scenario based training, those involved know that they are in no real harm, that the attackers are no such thing, and that it is a safe controlled environment. No amount of posturing and shouting can remove that reality from your subconscious, and therefore your interperetation of that situation.

Outside of class, where an instructor cant step it, where the guy in front of you is not Jeff from work, and where the knife is made of metal and held by someone who is really trying to rape you, you will feel as far removed from your class as if you had been only been doing kata for the previous 4 years.

Now, the advantage hard contact, non scenario sparring has is that the motivations of your oponent are real- they want to hit you, they want to dominate, they want to drop you on your a$$- its not make believe, and the strategies and technique that you come to rely on under that pressure, will come more easily under other pressure.

As for "what about someones Mum or little sister, or the feminine high school male, with noe self esteme."

I would sooner send them into the world with the actual physical attributes than a head full of false confidence born of an illusion.
Now before you say 'Its not an illusion', consider this- everyone involved is part of the class, therefore the 'attackers' are there to learn what is on offer. In turn this means that they want the defender to succeed, as this will reinforce their conviction in what they are learning.
In competetive sparring, it is all about genuine intent.

As for me, I never studied MA's during my time working doors. I started when I was 17, and what I had was common sense, people skills, confidence and an absolute lack of remorse in regards to causing physical discomfort to idiots. The rest I learned from experience.

That experience has taught me that an attacker is as unpredictable as they are predictable. That is something that scenario training, from what i have seen, does not acknowledge, and that your comments in regards the 'set up' of that footage do little to convince me otherwise.

Its all good though, there is room for more than one church in this town
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#408662 - 01/27/09 02:54 AM Re: Top Ten Aussie (RBSD) Instructors [Re: Cord]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
Quote:

I always had strength. I doubt I have significant skill per se, to this day, but I work with what I have got.

My point is, that in intellectualising this stuff, you can end up 'over egging the pudding'.

You have to understand that, no matter what you do with scenario based training, those involved know that they are in no real harm, that the attackers are no such thing, and that it is a safe controlled environment. No amount of posturing and shouting can remove that reality from your subconscious, and therefore your interperetation of that situation.

Outside of class, where an instructor cant step it, where the guy in front of you is not Jeff from work, and where the knife is made of metal and held by someone who is really trying to rape you, you will feel as far removed from your class as if you had been only been doing kata for the previous 4 years.





Agreed Cord but the closer to reality as you can is still closer then simple contact sparring.

[quote
Now, the advantage hard contact, non scenario sparring has is that the motivations of your oponent are real- they want to hit you, they want to dominate, they want to drop you on your a$$- its not make believe, and the strategies and technique that you come to rely on under that pressure, will come more easily under other pressure.




Agreed, but Scenario training can be run the same way, don't let you perception from the previous vid rule your idea of scenario training. think about scenario training as full contact sparring with a story. just like sparing it can be run at different levels

Quote:


As for "what about someones Mum or little sister, or the feminine high school male, with noe self esteme."

I would sooner send them into the world with the actual physical attributes than a head full of false confidence born of an illusion.




So would I, we are reality based after all not fantasy based.

Quote:


Now before you say 'Its not an illusion',




false confidence is an illusion.

Quote:


consider this- everyone involved is part of the class, therefore the 'attackers' are there to learn what is on offer. In turn this means that they want the defender to succeed, as this will reinforce their conviction in what they are learning.






this is true we can not replicate reality by definition, a replication can never be the real thing. we can however try to replicate as closely as we can. but no I agree we can't do it 100%. but RBSD scenario training (ful contact) is still closer then two guys shaping up waiting for "hajime"

Quote:


In competetive sparring, it is all about genuine intent.
Quote:




You can still have genuine intend with scenario training. no-one has ever said that the bad guy should let the participant win.

Quote:

As for me, I never studied MA's during my time working doors. I started when I was 17, and what I had was common sense, people skills, confidence and an absolute lack of remorse in regards to causing physical discomfort to idiots. The rest I learned from experience.

exactly this is you, others differ greatly from this, the fact that you started bouncing and continued shows that your approach is right for you , but your approach may not be right for the weaker members of society. those who couldn't even start a bouncing career let alone continue it.

Quote:


That experience has taught me that an attacker is as unpredictable as they are predictable. That is something that scenario training, from what i have seen, does not acknowledge, and that your comments in regards the 'set up' of that footage do little to convince me otherwise.




Then ignore the footage and think about what I've said. by the way scenario training isn't set up or scripted, it can be just as random and chaotic as sparring. the set up I speak of is a starting point, storyline set up the situation not to determine the out come. if you have a look at some of clives Knife defence scenario stuff you will see that the good guys morew often then not gets cuts to bit's

Quote:


Its all good though, there is room for more than one church in this town




I agree through I'd probably steer away from the church reference. ( they get more people attending theirsessions
_________________________
Sumo Pacis (Choose Peace)

With Honour in Bushido
Drew Guest
www.ToowoombaSelfDefence.websyte.com.au
Bushi Dojos Self Protection
Toowoomba Self Defence

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#408663 - 01/28/09 08:37 AM Re: Top Ten Aussie (RBSD) Instructors [Re: drgndrew]
Olderman Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 51
Quote:



A good basic skill set is not required for effective self defence...desired but not required, .







Hi Drew. My brain is a bit fuzzed up but never the less I will attempt to relate what I think.
Last night I trained.
1 mile run.
Weights.
Then off to the heavy bag which is around the corner from the weights/ fitness room.
I am already tired.
On the heavy bag is a trainee boxer.
He says hi and would I hold the bag.
I agree and off he goes. Then he asks about using the lower body in punching.
I try to explain what I do. Then he goes through some techniques and asks me to throw some jabs at him.
The next thing he wants to sparr.



Things I did.
First off I was reluctant.

Used the techniques namely my version of a jab that I had and still do drill and drill.
A technique that I have done that often I will be doing
it just before they lay me to rest.
What did he do.
He countered some of my jabs with techniques he had drilled and learned. So I got popped a few times.
It occurs to me to pull/ snap my jab back and move.
So I do.
Basic techniques.

My next move was to double and triple the jab alternating to the stomach/ head.
The intensity of the sparring moved up.
His reaction was to shut his eyes.
Put his head down and freeze.
We finished with me in close and him taking all kinds of shots.


So today I am tired.
Lessons I have re learned.
(1) Pull my jab back quicker.
(2) keep my hands up
(3) Where did everything I have/learned go??
(4)I was only using what I knew would work for me under pressure. It was like being stuck in being able to only do a very limited number of things.
(5)My mind was on survival mode.

He was feezing when I was connecting with more than one jab.
He was sure of his self untill I connected with my jabs.

So Drew how can anything work unless it is drilled and drilled and put in to the subconscouse mind?. While I would agree there are people who can fight from pure instincts with out much training I doubt if the average person going on seminars will be natural proven street fighters/ brawlers.
Quote:



this is supported by the thousands of cases of untrained victims fighting off larger, seemingly more able attackers.




I havent got a clue how those people came about.
If a person is aggressive and able and attacks someone who cant fight its going to be a one sided affair.


Edited by Olderman (01/28/09 08:44 AM)

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#408664 - 01/28/09 08:55 AM Re: Top Ten Aussie (RBSD) Instructors [Re: Olderman]
Olderman Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 51
So that scenario was in a gym with two people agreeing.
Lets put that in a pub scene in your mans situation that he roll played.
Two guys approaching with bad intentions.
One gets to close.
Bad positioning for the roll player.
He allows himself to be touched.

Drilled split second re-action.
Strike.
Undrilled un thought of split second reaction
Pull away and think about talking down two guys?

While I can see the point of roll playing in the correct environment I doubt if anything will work unless it is drilled. Unless they belong to the small minority.

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#408665 - 01/29/09 06:36 AM Re: Top Ten Aussie (RBSD) Instructors [Re: Olderman]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
Quote:

Quote:



A good basic skill set is not required for effective self defence...desired but not required, .







Hi Drew. My brain is a bit fuzzed up but never the less I will attempt to relate what I think.
Last night I trained.
1 mile run.
Weights.
Then off to the heavy bag which is around the corner from the weights/ fitness room.
I am already tired.
On the heavy bag is a trainee boxer.
He says hi and would I hold the bag.
I agree and off he goes. Then he asks about using the lower body in punching.
I try to explain what I do. Then he goes through some techniques and asks me to throw some jabs at him.
The next thing he wants to sparr.



Things I did.
First off I was reluctant.

Used the techniques namely my version of a jab that I had and still do drill and drill.
A technique that I have done that often I will be doing
it just before they lay me to rest.
What did he do.
He countered some of my jabs with techniques he had drilled and learned. So I got popped a few times.
It occurs to me to pull/ snap my jab back and move.
So I do.
Basic techniques.

My next move was to double and triple the jab alternating to the stomach/ head.
The intensity of the sparring moved up.
His reaction was to shut his eyes.
Put his head down and freeze.
We finished with me in close and him taking all kinds of shots.


So today I am tired.
Lessons I have re learned.
(1) Pull my jab back quicker.
(2) keep my hands up
(3) Where did everything I have/learned go??
(4)I was only using what I knew would work for me under pressure. It was like being stuck in being able to only do a very limited number of things.
(5)My mind was on survival mode.

He was feezing when I was connecting with more than one jab.
He was sure of his self untill I connected with my jabs.





Ok lets take the above situation in context. It was not a self-defence situation, it was a sparring session: Two people agreeing to spar (fight), with consent, implied rules and ďgentlemanly behaviourĒ. The lessons you learn are specific to that situation. Yes they can be beneficial for self-defence, and lessons learned during sparring should be kept in mind for other violence. But the point is that it was not a real world situation nor did it resemble it in any way except for the fact that punches were used.

I donít have a problem with Sparing as a developmental tool, but is does encourage development within the sporting environment. People donít spar on the street, some times they fight, but thatís not self-defence. Self-defence isnít fighting with another it is being attacked by another.

This is why I prefer scenario to sparring. Both can be run at the same intensity and the same level of contact. The difference is that one is set in a behavioural environment that is similar to reality the other is a competition.

Different mind set, different emotions, different dynamics. For eg if you and I ( he he &#9786; I used proper English) spared I would bet you would wipe the floor with you. But If I attacked you then who knows, you wouldnít be fighting me the same way in both situations would you. In the earlier situation we agree to start at a chosen time we shape up and spar, within a given assumed set of rules, we both try to win or defeat the other we are not trying intently damage the other.

If I attacked you I would be the one determining the start time (and the attack would start well before the first strike), I would be determining where and when it starts and I wonít be giving you any sort of warning like shaping up to you, in fact I will be trying to engage your mind and distract you so that my first physical attack will be in and out before you even know whatís happening. On top of this I would have picked you because I already believe I can beet you, or because I have some ďadvantageĒ up my sleeve. If you get knocked down Iím not going to wait for you to get back up Iím going to continue to destroy you, Iíll literally kick your head in and stomp on you. I wonít obey the rules you trained under and I wonít care for being a gentleman. I will deliver onto you every bit of hate and disappointment and prove that Iím not weak. You my friend will not be just a fight opponent, you wonít even be seen as a victim in me, you will simply be the personification of everything that is wrong in my life, and for once Iím going to destroy you.

Now I better add a disclaimer that I do not attack people and the above was an example of the difference in BEP of just your opponent between real life self defence and full contact fight training. There is also the difference of your own BEP of the situations BEP and even other people and the environment (ok environment doesnít have a BEP but rather induces BEPs, for eg a person will have a different BEP at the office compared to a Heavy metal concert etc )


Quote:


So Drew how can anything work unless it is drilled and drilled and put in to the subconscouse mind?. While I would agree there are people who can fight from pure instincts with out much training I doubt if the average person going on seminars will be natural proven street fighters/ brawlers.





Dude we still do pad drills etc remember we are reality based and we know that more power more speed and more practice means better performance.


Scenarios are Drills, we donít just do one scenario and then say you can now defend yourself, we use scenarios as a means to bridge the gap between training and reality, and we drill scenarios, just like we drill pre-emptive palms (most RSBD donít punch but thatís personal thing), instead if simply hiting the pad over and over again we may introduce a behavioural aspect to the training like Geoff Thompsonís eg of asking a question to engage the mind just prior to launching your pre-empt. ( ďDo you like sherbetĒ ÖBOOM!!, ďdid West win on the weekendÖBOOM!!! ďYour mums name is Flo isnít itĒÖ Boom. This provides a better link to real world application then just ÖBoom! Boom! Boom!

Thatís just one eg of modifying the training (in this case pad work) to be more applicable to real world encounters. Of course we also just pound the crap out of the pads/bags itís a great exercise and feel great.


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this is supported by the thousands of cases of untrained victims fighting off larger, seemingly more able attackers.




I havent got a clue how those people came about.
If a person is aggressive and able and attacks someone who cant fight its going to be a one sided affair.




No, mate, this is incorrect thinking, Ok let me explain. Limiting belief produces limited performance. If you believe you cannot defend yourself against a stronger better skilled opponent then you will not be able to. Under the BEP of sporting competition then this will be the case the better greater skilled man usually wins (but not always). The outcome in sporting arena is determined by skilful victory; it is by definition a test of skill. BEPs of sport are controlled to provide way for skill to be the determinate ( ie BEP is the same or similar for each person).

Now what is the biggest determinate of victory in combat sport, it is often not the superior level of ability but a superior level of spirit ( spirit is a BEP component). It I this kind of spirit Or something similar that enabled untrained weaker people to fight off larger attackers. Iíve actually done a fair bit of personal research into these types of survivor stories (I only wish I still had my notes ) one of the driving forces behind the victims ability to overcome the attacker was shear will. Some of that will came in the form of what I call ďThird Party MotivationĒ. This is when a person is motivated due to the consequences to a third party. For eg the mother suddenly fighting back when her child is in danger, even when already suffering major injuries. Or the old granny fighting off a thief when he tried to take a bracelet made by her grandchild (both of these are actual cases).

The vast majority of these victims were able to successfully defend themselves because of the BEP elements of violence, not physical skill and not by drilling techniques thousands of times. They used natural weapons that they had developed before school age, hitting, scratching, bitting, gouging, screaming etc etc all gross motor all natural. ( by the way these techniques have been constantly in use since first developed so in a sense they are very highly drilled.

This research and my findings (which has also been supported by other studies by other people including scientist and instructors) form the basis of my approach to RBSD training. Without going into great detail I first show someone how to use their natural abilities and their natural defence mechanisms. Most of these have been developed over the period of human evolution and even prior to it. With this being the first step I can increase the defensive ability of anyone in a matter of hours using what they already have so they donít need to develop new techniques to defend themselves. I also introduce then to the BEP component of violence and show them how to apply their natural skills to the BEP of a real world attack. I do not claim that the person will be able to defend himself or herself in every situation nor that they will be at a similar level as a trained person . However they will be far more able and effective in protecting themselves then what they were a few hours before. Donít worry I do not give them any false illusion.

Next step is to tactically modify the reflexive responses and innate techniques to improve them. Then I introduce other techniques to further improve the studentís ability. I continuously have the student apply the techniques in a behavioural environment, simulating aspects of real life, from the very beginning. This way they use what ever they have effectively in application; even if the technique is [censored] it still can be effective if applied right. It doesnít matter how they hit as long as they hit.

We then work on developing skill in technique; the student can concentrate on technique because they already have the ability to apply the technique in a real environment. I concentrate more on principles and concepts at first so they can apply what they have (at whatever level they are at) directly to the street. As they develop greater skill and greater techniques these naturally increase the effectiveness of the person.

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Drilled split second re-action.
Strike.




you can do this with scenario training and have a better chance of not dropping the attractive bartender that entered your space and touched your arm. Split second reaction is good to have knowing when to react is better. Scenario training tries to address this, we also seem to be a little more into the avoiding violence then may MMA guys in the sense that we include de-escalation drills,

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Undrilled un thought of split second reaction
Pull away and think about talking down two guys?




Itís a tactic that, in my opinion, is every bit as important as split second reaction. Iíve described the strategy earlier (I think, I canít remember what Iíve typed). But let me say that during the de-escalation phase you are not only trying to talk the guy(s) down, you are also positioning yourself to try to take advantage of the environment, you are setting him up both in position and in BEP advantage to yourself, you are not only de-esculating you are taking control of the situation and that is when you have the upper hand the other fella just doesnít see it.


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While I can see the point of roll playing in the correct environment I doubt if anything will work unless it is drilled. Unless they belong to the small minority.





I covered that above.

I honestly which I could run a seminar for you guys to actually show what Iím trying to say. but being 15000 kmís away and doubting anyone will be paying to host a no-name it probably want be happening anytime soon.

Itís not that I disagree; I just think there are things that can be done differently to produce better results for particular (and differing) goals. TMA, MMA and RBSD can be interlocked like jigsaw matts and just like jigsaw matts the integration of them provides better overall coverage. I actually offer a seminar called ďDojo to StreetĒ bridging course that shows how to incorporate RBSD type training into traditional or Sporting MA training.

Learning RBSD allows the student to concentrate on the finer points of MA


Edited by drgndrew (01/29/09 06:40 AM)
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Drew Guest
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#408666 - 01/29/09 07:45 AM Re: Top Ten Aussie (RBSD) Instructors [Re: drgndrew]
Triddle Offline
Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 129
Loc: Australia
Drew, your points are interesting, but I can't claim to understand the idea of RBSD very well. I mean, to me its a lot more about developing attitude than techniques, which I can see is what your trying to do with this and that's a good thing. I just don't know how well it could work.

Personally I consider my fighting attitude mediocre at best, I think that if I need to fight I can, and that I can get an advantage in some situations (ie hit first when the time is right ). The reason I have this is entirely practical though, my 'situational training' was highschool, its when I go to the pub, its walking home at night. Its from either getting into fights or avoiding getting into fights in actual reality. My 'training' is completley different, and only half as useful, but much more easy to come by. I can go out and train technique and spar regularly, fights happen only as often as I can't avoid them. Its for that reason that I like the idea of RBSD, but I doubt its real practicality, without taking it to the level where you have members of your club go jump eachother I can't see how you can simulate it.

But as I said, I'm not real learned on the subject, I'd have to experience it to really know. If you ever come to tassie and are in the mood, I'd be glad to see your point in a practical sense.

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