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#408617 - 01/21/09 04:06 PM Re: Top Ten Aussie (RBSD) Instructors [Re: drgndrew]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

G'day All,

I'm just curious as to who you think are Australia's best RBSD instructors. I'm interested who has made it into the international spotlight. it doesn't have to be just RBSD either any Instructor that you feel has made impact on the MA/SP scene is worthy of acknowledgment.





Richard Norton ?
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#408618 - 01/21/09 06:48 PM Re: Top Ten Aussie (RBSD) Instructors [Re: Olderman]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
G'day Olderman

Quote:



RBSD instructors

Clive Girdham

To be blunt if what is shown on that demonstration is what he offers then I wouldnt be buying.

Each to their own though.




Could you elaborate on this for me mate, I know Clive quite well and will recommend him without hesitation. As far as reality based self defence/self protection goes he is one of the best in Oz.

I'm curious though, how his Youtube clips are percieved by the broader community, could you tell me what it is about them that would prevent you "buying"

Serious question, as I will be putting some of my own material up sometime and would appreciate knowing how it is likely to be seen (so I can provide a more accurate representation etc)

Thanks in Advance.
_________________________
Sumo Pacis (Choose Peace)

With Honour in Bushido
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Bushi Dojos Self Protection
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#408619 - 01/21/09 06:57 PM Re: Top Ten Aussie (RBSD) Instructors [Re: MattJ]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
John will is definitely worthy of mention he is one of the pioneers of martial arts in our country, and was doing MMA back when it was called cross training.( ie well before UFC)


HEY Cord,
Richard Norton is also very worthy of mention, I didn't include him in my list because he is primarily a "modern Traditionalist" he's reality based but not RBSD if that makes sense.

He's a great guy, but I might be a little bias seeing as he's an Aussie and he wears the same "Bushido Cross" around his neck as I do (well Did, I rarely wear it now a days)

Another Trainer that I should include is Dave Hedgecock, He has a lot of security and real world experience, is a former world champ, and is a trainer to many other world champs. he's known as a living legend down here.
_________________________
Sumo Pacis (Choose Peace)

With Honour in Bushido
Drew Guest
www.ToowoombaSelfDefence.websyte.com.au
Bushi Dojos Self Protection
Toowoomba Self Defence

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#408620 - 01/22/09 07:36 PM Re: Top Ten Aussie (RBSD) Instructors [Re: drgndrew]
Olderman Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 51
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=i8SLYTbcZPA

Hi. Here is the video.
What dont I like about it?
Just about everything.

I would like to reverse the question.

How would you have handled that situation?


Thanks.

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#408621 - 01/22/09 08:15 PM Re: Top Ten Aussie (RBSD) Instructors [Re: Olderman]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
Rather than simply reversing the question, I think it would be fair to actually offer a critique of the video, rather than just bounce the question back to Drew.

--Chris


Edited by Ames (01/22/09 08:23 PM)
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#408622 - 01/22/09 10:55 PM Re: Top Ten Aussie (RBSD) Instructors [Re: Olderman]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
G'day Olderman

Quote:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=i8SLYTbcZPA

Hi. Here is the video.
What dont I like about it?
Just about everything.

I would like to reverse the question.

How would you have handled that situation?


Thanks.





I'm happy to give you my opinion on the vid mate, But I would like you to expand on why you don't like it. (I'm genuinely interested, not looking for a flame war or any such crap)

This vid is an example of scenario training, which was only a small part of the seminar and is used to provide a medium between training and real life. I wasn't there but I heard a great deal about the seminar and was already familiar with Clive's instruction as well as the instruction of the host Jim Armstrong (Raw Combative in Melbourne). Jim is in gray singlet being the victim of a 2 on 1. (I also know Jim pretty well and will recommend him without hesitation.

OK now to the video.

This is pretty well a textbook example of how to handle a multiple attacker situation. We don't get to hear the details of the scenario but in general: Jim was in an Aussie pub (he is a Goardie by the way) and is approached by two guys obviously intending Jim harm. Jim walks up to the bar and places his order. this is when the two attackers approach him. The helmets make it a bit difficult to hear what exactly is being said (Jim's accent doesn't help). But in general the two guys are not liking the fact that a pom is drinking in there pub.

Jim tries to de-esculated the situation, keeping his hands up in a passive stance using the "Fence" concept. you'll notice that Jim Keeps moving in a circular fashion, what he is doing here is angeling off so that one of the guys has to chase to maintain a flanking position, in essence he is keeping them on one front. the worst position to be in with multiple attackers is to allow one of then to position on your flank or behind you.

Jim obviously realizes that these guys aren't going to be talked down, and decides to strike preemptively he also strikes at the moment one of the attackers makes an agressive arm movement towards him (from our vantage we can see this is a pointing action but from where Jim is may have appeared to be a strike). Either way Jim decides to pre-empt. there is no hard and fast rule about when to pre-empt it is entirely up to the person, in this case Jim believed he could not talk his way out of it so he struck first.

Jim demonstrates a simple concept of not fighting 2 people at once but fighting one person twice. He uses one of them as a shield between himself and the other.

The strikes being used are open hand palms, what you don't see is the other things going on, for eg when Jim is using one guy as a shield ( at about 32 sec) he isn't just holding the guy he is raking the face and burying his fingers into his eyes etc obviously Jim is only simulating this as you would soon run out of willing training partners if you actually buried his fingers a knuckle or two deep into the eye socket. ( this is not a discussion about Senshido's "Shredder" but here is an example of where it works very well, just having a hand in your face is invasive enough).

Now the attackers keep coming because this is overkill training but in reality the first strike would have a good chance of putting the lights out of the first attacker or at least stun him enough to take care of the other guy.

The strikes don't look that powerful because the helmets do a great job of nullifying them plus I doubt very much Jim was hitting full power. You may ask why there was no punching; two reasons spring to mind. First open hand strikes are safer on the street and provide more options (such as grabbing, raking). Secondly those helmets have hard Itec visors that are designed to stop a 120mph ice hokey puck, they have a couple of edges on them and frankly they hurt like hell to hit.

No I will admit Jim swears a little more then I would but thats just his way of kihai'ing, and he is a Goardie remember.

Real life violence is not pretty and it does not look like kata, it looks sloppy and chaotic, thus scenario training will look similar.

I do look forward to hearing your views, I can either explain why you may have seen it differently or I can take on what you say for reference in the future. if there is a way of improving what we do then I want to know about. if you can tell me I will listen, I may not agree but I will listen.
_________________________
Sumo Pacis (Choose Peace)

With Honour in Bushido
Drew Guest
www.ToowoombaSelfDefence.websyte.com.au
Bushi Dojos Self Protection
Toowoomba Self Defence

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#408623 - 01/23/09 09:03 AM Re: Top Ten Aussie (RBSD) Instructors [Re: drgndrew]
Olderman Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 51
0.14 it is quite obvious by the approach, body language that something is going to happen.

Communication of some sort. Be it bad or good.

Even if they were trying the “I will smile and be friendly approach” before it was going to escalate.

Awareness.

This should set the “I am going to get myself in the best defensive position I can thought in to play quickly glancing about looking, thinking, is the way STILL clear for me to get out of here?
Front door? Back door?
The doors/ exit I checked out when I first came in here.

Yes/ No?

Two people approach but do they have others who will get involved? Were they speaking to them when I came in? Were they in a large group?

Yes? / No? /Don’t know.

Don’t give his back as he is doing to one person and certainly not to two people.

I would be turning with a smile on my face saying hi guys a along time before they got that close and chin down for starters.

He allows them in to his space. He allows one to touch him?
Two people? One touches/ pushes his arm ?

As soon as the persons hand comes up to Jims arm, Jim has given the first guy the opportunity to strike or the second one could have taken (attacked from) Jims back while Jim is held by the first one.
Jim could have been taken out there and then.

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#408624 - 01/23/09 09:35 AM Re: Top Ten Aussie (RBSD) Instructors [Re: drgndrew]
Olderman Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 51
That is the first couple of seconds.
Two people are walking towards him, they enter his space, they touch and push him.
He has allowed that.
CCTV in those pubs?
That is the first part within a few seconds where a hard conditioned strike(isnt that why people spend hours doing massive amounts of reps) from Jim could have been justified in the courts.
I prefer to use my fists in such a situation although for training purposes and given the equipment then I suppose open hand could be used for live training.
But in reality it would depend on the target area.
Personly I would have let the other persons hand begin to
be outstretched.
I would not have allowed him to make contact.
Then it would be I am out of here or do I have to fight my way out.


As regards talking people down in that situation and given the circumstances I wouldnt have even bothered to attempt it.
If the two were sat down and telling me then maybe I would attempt to discuss why I should be there but there again I would have more than likely not bothered given they could have been drunk.

From verbal begginings all sorts of things can occur.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7176471.stm


I dont particuler want to be a reporters article for earning money from some ones bad intentions.

Anyway that is how I see things.
Each to their own.

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#408625 - 01/23/09 10:01 AM Re: Top Ten Aussie (RBSD) Instructors [Re: drgndrew]
Olderman Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 51
Jim was in an Aussie pub he is a Geordie.


Geordies are in the main great people. The guys can be rough, hard guys.
If it was in a pub, then in SOME pubs there will be furniture, people and all kinds of things in the pub.
Even in Geordie pubs. So to run backwards will be a bit difficult. To run backwards and fight even more difficult.
So I will guess if it is scenario training stick things there that would be found in a pub.
Well I will not doubt Jims willingness to fight or the fact he will have a lot of fight in him.

I will guess he is a decent fighter.

Anyway its up to you.

Viv Graham (Geordie doorman was one hell of a fighter)

R.I.P Viv.

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#408626 - 01/23/09 10:07 AM Re: Top Ten Aussie (RBSD) Instructors [Re: Olderman]
Olderman Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 51
So that I am not miss understood.
It should have said.
Anyway its up to you.

Viv Graham (he was a Geordie doorman) was one hell of a fighter.

R.I.P Viv.

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