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#408496 - 09/25/08 08:56 PM Jujitsu Randori
Rayson Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/28/07
Posts: 19
Loc: Louisiana, United States
Yo guys.
In your opinion, how should jujitsu randori be conducted? Do you think it is beneficial to self defense training? How is it done in your school.

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#408497 - 09/25/08 10:56 PM Re: Jujitsu Randori [Re: Rayson]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
I think for the most part, if Traditional JJ is to be truly effective and train students to protect themselves, there should be an avenue for training against progressive resistance in an evironment that encourages problem solving and improvization.

Judo with striking comes to mind as the small joint attacks are very difficult to practice at full speed in a safe manner. If left to develop on it's own, it would soon closely resemble sport MMA.
_________________________
www.brazilianjiujitsunaples.com

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#408498 - 09/26/08 01:21 AM Re: Jujitsu Randori [Re: Rayson]
aikibam Offline
Stranger

Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 2
i've been studying traditional aiki jujitsu for four years. I love it. I study under grandmaster irving soto. actually that's the reason i signed up for this. some people have have been bad mouthing my grandmaster. If my grandmaster isn't the real deal why does he train navy seals, delta force ect. as a matter of fact i will gladly challenge anyone who would like a test of skills. my traditional jujitsu vs. your whatever. so do i beleive in traditional jujitsu? yes i do! as far as the rendori. chew them up and spit them out. think about it

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#408499 - 09/26/08 01:39 AM Re: Jujitsu Randori [Re: aikibam]
aikibam Offline
Stranger

Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 2
oh and by the way.aiki-jujitsu is the father art to the arts you know as aikido, judo, karate, and brazilian jujitsu. so if you believe that one or more of these arts are effective, then by all means take a look at aiki jujitsu. also known as diato ryo jujitsu

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#408500 - 09/26/08 05:27 AM Re: Jujitsu Randori [Re: aikibam]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
I take it you are referring to this: http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...part=1&vc=1

I think you should make another thread about any issue you have with people on the forums opinions of Mr Soto. Its not fair to take over another persons thread.

BTW, the term Aikijujutsu was coined by Takeda Sokaku. Mr Soto has no verifiable links to Takeda Sokaku. Ergo, he can use the term Aikijutsu all he wants, but that doesn't mean he teaches aikijutsu. The worst thing Takeda Sensei ever did (or didn't do) was copyright the term Aikijujutsu. If he did, you wouldn't see half as many cowboys pretending to teach something that they aren't.

There is no such art as Diato Ryo. Clearly you don't know an awful lot about traditional Japanese arts. If you did, chances are you wouldn't believe what Irving Soto says about teach "Aikijutsu".

If you have PROOF to refute any of the above, please provide.

NB "Mr Soto told me so" does not count as proof.

If you want to chat about this further, please make another thread.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#408501 - 09/26/08 08:07 AM Re: Jujitsu Randori [Re: aikibam]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Aikibam,

I understand that you respect your teacher, but if you feel that you need to protect him online, then YOU as a student have no confidence in your teacher.

Don't take over another person's thread like that, it's bad manners.

As for your master, open a new thread and be ready for criticism, negative or positive, I don't know.

It's after all a public forum.

~Taison
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#408502 - 09/28/08 01:49 AM Re: Jujitsu Randori [Re: Taison]
Rayson Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/28/07
Posts: 19
Loc: Louisiana, United States
Let me ask this way,

In your opinion what is a more effective method for teaching basic skills for defense, sparring or randori? The way we do randori in my school is kinda disappointing. First off the attacks are unrealistic (opponent in front of you and does a lunge punch) and we hardly ever do it (like once every 3 months). I think my skill is really suffering because of this. So I plan on meeting outside of class with another student and working on it.

How often and how big a part does jujitsu randori play in you training at your dojo?


Edited by Rayson (09/28/08 01:53 AM)

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#408503 - 09/28/08 04:40 AM Re: Jujitsu Randori [Re: Rayson]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
At my dojo it was quite simple;

We would drill the techniques we were trying to master. Then we would apply it under pressure, and later on in randori.

Sparring was, and will be around 80% of the work, the rest will be drilling simple, efficient techniques that are suited to YOUR body type.

Note we used to do judo randori, and 2 times a week we would just put on some MMA gloves and do a NHB styled sparring (yes, striking on ground included).

The way you're doing randori sounds to me like kata. Totally dead, no 'aliveness' in it at all.

If you're asking me how big a part does sparring play in my training, then all I can say it's my core.

~Donnie
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#408504 - 09/28/08 06:16 AM Re: Jujitsu Randori [Re: Rayson]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
If you want more sparring, you could talk to your teacher about it. Alternatively, looking into Judo or BJJ to get some good randori/rolling in might be worth exploring.

It depends what kind of Ju Jutsu you are studying. If it is traditional, Japanese Ju Jutsu, they may be teaching you unrealistic attacks and movements in order to teach deeper principles first e.g. learning to keep good posture. My Aikido teacher use to say there was no point in thinking about how to use Aikido in a real situation until you learnt how to stay balanced, keep good posture, constant awareness, strong centre etc... These principles were the most important thing to learn. The principles offered more knowledge and possibilities than a list of make shift techniques.

If you are in what I call a "New Jitsu" school, where a teacher shows you a mix of karate/kickboxing/judo/wrestling/combative et al.... then goodness knows what you are learning.

My personal opinion is that it is better to learn fundemental principles rather than techniques. If just taught "technique" with no understanding of the principles involved, you can find that technique has very narrow useage.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#408505 - 09/28/08 11:09 AM Re: Jujitsu Randori [Re: Prizewriter]
Rayson Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/28/07
Posts: 19
Loc: Louisiana, United States
Quote:


My personal opinion is that it is better to learn fundemental principles rather than techniques. If just taught "technique" with no understanding of the principles involved, you can find that technique has very narrow useage.




Well said. I practice traditional jujitsu. Although, We do judo randori and ground wrestling much more than jujitsu randori. The majority of our class time is spent practicing techniques against non resisting opponents.

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