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#407524 - 09/24/08 12:19 AM Re: Hmm... Okay.... [Re: GansuKid]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Gansu, here's a little info about me before you call me 'dumb'.

I'm a 1st Dan in both Judo and Japanese Jujutsu.

The way you assume about me, I'm going to treat you in the same manner. I think I know a lot better what an ippon seoi-nage is because unlike you, I've done that throw for 4 years, on average 20 times a day. How many have you?

Use of Japanese terms to make yourself look smart is just pathetic. Yes, I know what a shio nage is and frankly, it's a waste of time. I don't extend my arms out like that to let anyone grab my wrists. To get into the proper throw you expose your whole ribcage area~ A nice shovel hook or two will make a huge difference between a failure and success.

Quote:

because I can't find people in a MMA venue on youtube performing Aiki-jujutsu techniques therefore I'm full of it....?


Nope.

I see you saying you're doing this stuff against MMA people all the time, here's a little thing I got from Bullshido.com; Put up a video or it didn't happen.

Quote:

Anything posted in repley to my words Iím just going to copy and paste what I said above as my retort.


Because you lack the means to defend your point of view.

~Donnie
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#407525 - 09/24/08 11:20 AM Re: Hmm... Okay.... [Re: BrianS]
everyone Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/02/07
Posts: 597
Loc: USA
Brian,

Where has the "too deadly" argument been hashed out and disproved?


There are several techniques that do not technically violate the rules but should never be used in competition. I don't think that it would be sporting if a competitor managed to get their opponent into a standing rear naked choke, then dropped to the ground (sprawling back)while maintaining the hold. Chances are that a broken neck would result. This is a simple example for illustration, but there are many techniques (sorry,I don't know Japanese terms) that cause serious permanent damage (or worse).

Michael

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#407526 - 09/24/08 11:42 AM Re: Hmm... Okay.... [Re: everyone]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
I was referring to techniques that cannot be trained because someone will get maimed or killed. Maybe,but if you can't train it, then how can it be useful?

There have been countless threads here on it.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#407527 - 09/24/08 12:30 PM Re: Hmm... Okay.... [Re: Taison]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Donnie,

Don't forget to add that these arts are addendums to your base art of MT, where you have a teaching certificate/instructor's license for the same given to you in Thailand where you learned and live.

If you're going to put your cards on the table, go ahead and lay some of the aces down too.

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#407528 - 09/24/08 01:25 PM Re: Hmm... Okay.... [Re: BrianS]
everyone Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/02/07
Posts: 597
Loc: USA
Countless threads does not = proof

So if you can't train a technique to it's full potential, it's not useful? The above example was a technique I was taught in the Army. I can not practice it with full power and with a resisting opponent, so is it not useful? I can walk through the technique, practice parts of it with full commitment, release the hold as I drop, etc... But I would not use it in competition. So it's not useful? Is it proven that it is not a valid arguement to say some techniques are too dangerous to be used in competition? I know you know better. Maybe I we are just not understanding each other.

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#407529 - 09/24/08 01:37 PM Re: Hmm... Okay.... [Re: everyone]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
No, they are useful imo. It's just less likely to make them work in a pressured situation unless you can train it in a pressured situation.

I've questioned this in my goju training when I see a technique that will obviously hurt someone, if you can pull it off.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#407530 - 09/24/08 01:51 PM Re: Hmm... Okay.... [Re: BrianS]
everyone Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/02/07
Posts: 597
Loc: USA
Most deadly or maiming techniques can be modified slightly or abandoned at some point in the execution as to not seriously hurt your training partner. You don't have to break an arm to know you could do it out of an arm-bar. IMO there is no question that the techniques will work as intended. At some point, you know you have it so you just release the pressure or abandon it for another technique to keep the sparring going. Anyway, I think we are in agreement.

Michael

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#407531 - 09/24/08 01:59 PM Re: Hmm... Okay.... [Re: BrianS]
JMWcorwin Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/13/07
Posts: 731
Loc: SoCal, USA
BrianS,

Quote:

I think #29 is your basic aikijutsu technique that's illegal.




8. Small joint manipulation.
9. Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh.
13. Grabbing the clavicle.
16. Stomping a grounded opponent.
17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel.
18. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.


These are more the kinds of things that stick out to me that we train regularly which don't crossover to sport. #18 just happens to be our bread and butter. And yes, I have seen it done, nothing good for the uke in that technique. But even something as simple as hair pulling; it's a great way to control the head of your opponent. And, if you were in a real SD situation you don't think your attacker would refrain from doing that 'cuz it's not sporting'?

Not trying to bash your point of view here; I generally aggree with most of what you post. But, I think you're holding on to this one a little too tightly. Open up a little and look at the possibilities within those 31 rules... lots of bad stuff.



edit- and sorry, you're last post wasn't up when I started this one.


Edited by JMWcorwin (09/24/08 03:21 PM)
_________________________
There are no PERFECT techniques, only perfect execution for the situation at hand. ~Corwin

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#407532 - 09/24/08 02:05 PM Re: Hmm... Okay.... [Re: JMWcorwin]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
No problem JMW!!


everyone, I believe we are!
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#407533 - 09/24/08 03:41 PM Re: Hmm... Okay.... [Re: Ames]
fileboy2002 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
Ames,

Is it possible that, as you say, "many facets of aikido are indeed workable in a MMA setting?" I don't know. To answer that question, I would have to know more about the fine details of aikido than I do.

What I can say is this: while MMA fighters borrow techniques and tactics from different martial arts, the number of arts most MMA fighters borrow from is relatively small. Basically, the mix seems to be boxing, Muay Thai, and some form (or forms) or wrestling. What boxing, Muay Thai and wrestling all have in common is they feature tons of so-called "alive" training--i.e. training against actively resisting opponenets under realistic conditions.

And I strongly disagree with your view that a practioner of BJJ would be just as ill-suited to MMA as an aikido practioner. BJJ, whatever its limitations, is far better grounded in the hard, blood-and-sweat realities of fighting than aikido currently is.

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