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#407177 - 09/14/08 07:48 PM Re: A reasonable discussion of "internal" physics [Re: fileboy2002]
Zach_Zinn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
Quote:

Actually, one of the larger circulation MA magazines (it may have been Black Belt) did an good article on this back in the late 1980s. They outlined how a whole serious of alleged "ki demonstrations" were just simple conjurer's tricks.

For example: Chopping a watermelon in half on someone's stomach while not cutting them (done with a dull blade; a dull blade will cut right through a crip watermelon but not injure more plaible skin and muscle); breaking boards across extended arms or torsos (use a soft, light wood like balsa); walking on hot coals (not as difficult as many people assume, especially if the person walks quickly).

The bottom line is that the laws of physics are pretty well understood, and any act that seems to defy them ought to raise suspicion.




Did you not read my post or what? I'm not talking about anything that defies physics, i'm talking about body tricks that plenty of people know how to do, and possibly how they work... such as the one described in my original post, not stupid crap like chopping watermelons, etc.

It infuriates me to no end when you guys don't even read a freaking post, and assume every post about internal subjects is related to stuff like walking on hot coals etc.....read what people are writing instead of imprinting what you want to argue about on a thread, I really don't care what you think about people who do the kind of tricks you mention because hey, I probably think the same thing...and that's not the subject at hand!!

This is exactly the reason I gave the example of the push that I did, it's non controversial as at the very least a good number of people have experienced something like it, and Eyrie even posted the Aunkai link that shows something similar.

Talk about that, not some dumb sokey-dokey cutting demo or something.


Edited by Zach_Zinn (09/14/08 07:57 PM)

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#407178 - 09/14/08 10:06 PM Re: A reasonable discussion of "internal" physics [Re: Zach_Zinn]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Geez Zach... thanks for dragging me into it... like my name isn't already dirt around here...

Sure... let's talk about the Aunkai method - not that I'm qualified to. The guy in the grey tracksuit top is Akuzawa Minoru. He's the progenitor of the Aunkai method.

BTW, you do know that the Aun in Aunkai is A-UN (Japanese) which in Sanskrit is OM (as in Om mani padme), and heng-ha in Chinese, right?

So, you sure you wanna talk about such esoteric mystical BS on a public forum!? Especially this one? Surely you realize by now, that stuff is just delusional BS?!

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#407179 - 09/14/08 10:53 PM Re: A reasonable discussion of "internal" physics [Re: eyrie]
Zach_Zinn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
Quote:

Geez Zach... thanks for dragging me into it... like my name isn't already dirt around here...

Sure... let's talk about the Aunkai method - not that I'm qualified to. The guy in the grey tracksuit top is Akuzawa Minoru. He's the progenitor of the Aunkai method.

BTW, you do know that the Aun in Aunkai is A-UN (Japanese) which in Sanskrit is OM (as in Om mani padme), and heng-ha in Chinese, right?

So, you sure you wanna talk about such esoteric mystical BS on a public forum!? Especially this one? Surely you realize by now, that stuff is just delusional BS?!




Truthfully I wish the people who are that black and white about it would just stay out of the thread, since I didn't create it for more of the same strawman bashfests that are going on in pretty much most other threads on the subject.

Somehow though i'm guessing that's wishful thinking on FA.com

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#407180 - 09/14/08 11:10 PM Re: A reasonable discussion of "internal" physics [Re: Zach_Zinn]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
When I was much younger, I used to see everything as either black or white... Until someone a lot older, wiser and more experienced, gently said to me, sometimes things aren't always black or white - there are 7 colors in the rainbow, and different shades, hues, saturation and luminosity in between. Grey is just another color, of which there are just as many shades. It didn't make any sense to me at the time, until I finally understood that it depends on how many bits it took to represent color information! Some of us just need a bigger CPU...

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#407181 - 09/14/08 11:19 PM Re: A reasonable discussion of "internal" physics [Re: eyrie]
dandjurdjevic Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/10/08
Posts: 844
Loc: Australia
Or maybe better resolution on your monitor?
_________________________
http://www.dandjurdjevic.com/

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#407182 - 09/14/08 11:24 PM Re: A reasonable discussion of "internal" physics [Re: dandjurdjevic]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
LOL!

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#407183 - 09/15/08 02:35 AM Re: A reasonable discussion of "internal" physics [Re: eyrie]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
OK, back on topic... so we have various arts, each with their own methods and exercises involving pushing (including shime) from a static stance - some neutral, some in various configurations.

The obvious question is why is such training methods necessary, and more importantly, what is the purpose of such training? Let's assume for the moment, that it has *some* martial value - otherwise, the exercise would be pointless.

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#407184 - 09/15/08 02:49 AM Re: A reasonable discussion of "internal" physics [Re: Zach_Zinn]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Quote:


Somehow though i'm guessing that's wishful thinking on FA.com




Bingo!!!!!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#407185 - 09/15/08 03:14 AM Re: A reasonable discussion of "internal" physics [Re: Gavin]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Just for that comment, Gav, I'm going to ask you...

Taiji has pushing in a semi-static/semi-dynamic format (aka push-hands). Push-hands obviously ain't "sparring", yet, we see various so-called "push-hand" competitions which are no more than a contest of "physical strength". Why is that you think? What is the purpose of taiji push-hands?

SO... Gav... what do you think?

(I'm not asking you to give away any secrets... but some general commentary pointing to very general "things" may be enlightening...)

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#407186 - 09/15/08 06:07 AM Re: A reasonable discussion of "internal" physics [Re: eyrie]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
So let's get this right, no secrets? Phew, I thought I was going to have to make something up for a second then!

Firstly just some clarification for the kids at home with Eyries choice of 'semi-static/semi-dynamic format', which I'm sure he's just talking about the footwork involved as nothing in Tai Chi is ever 'static'...

For me the Push Hand competitions are where people have mistaken the drill of Push Hands as the 'fight' for want of a better word. IMO it isn't, and although it isn't sparring/fighting it is the precursor to it. It is Tai Chi's equivalent to hand fighting from wrestling and it shouldn't involve the slap fest tug-o-war that you see in the youtube clips. Which are IMO mainly people wanting to feel like they're fighting/sparring without actually fighting or sparring.

Push Hands for me is the initial point of contact in combat, what Bossman refers to as the 'Jeet' point. Its a highly critical point where you take your opponents balance to set up the next stage in combat which then follows immediately with a strike, lock or throw....just as you would in wrestling after pummelling for the dominant position. I feel that the people in the Push Hands comps have kinda got stuck at the first stage of combat and turned that into the 'fight', which is why we see it turn into a 'dead' wrestling match....much like what many reality based people would call 'alive' resistant training....but that's gonna take the thread way off in another direction.

Obviously this is just my take on it and seem to be barking up different tree's to most people, some would say that I'm just barking!


Edited by Gavin (09/15/08 06:19 AM)
_________________________
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Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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