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#407237 - 09/23/08 05:09 PM Re: A reasonable discussion of "internal" physics [Re: Zach_Zinn]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

Quote:

Now be fair, I am learning a lot- especially that there are attachment points for the biceps and triceps on the pelvis/lumbar vertebrae





That isn't what he said....I think that's why he put it in the context of a 'phantom limb'...im' pretty sure he knows that your arms don't actually attach to your psoas.




Really? I only respond to what is written:

Quote:

To begin with, the arms and legs donít stop at the hips and shoulders. I know, the bone does stop there, so it seems logical to assume thatís the end. However, the tendons/muscles of the legs and arm actually attach in the waist area




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#407238 - 09/23/08 09:36 PM Re: A reasonable discussion of "internal" physics [Re: Cord]
Zach_Zinn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
lol I don't think he meant literally, I don't imagine anyone other than a schizophrenic would mean that exactly as written.

It would look cool though.


Edited by Zach_Zinn (09/23/08 09:39 PM)

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#407239 - 09/23/08 10:44 PM Re: A reasonable discussion of "internal" physics [Re: Zach_Zinn]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
What's interesting is that these people that claim "internal" is no different to "external" and that it is the same thing, can't reasonably talk about the same thing. Instead they have to resort to picking on the minute details and blow it out disproportionately in a vague attempt to discredit the poster.

Since they know it to be the same things you would think that they could logically and reasonably discuss these things in a manner befitting? You would think that if some of these people "claim to do sanchin and therefore an IMA", they could talk about it reasonably and add to the discussion.

Yet, so far I have yet to see any of these people offer anything substantive or elucidatory, apart from insults, derogatory comments and abusive behaviour to mask their own inadequate understanding of what they (supposedly) do.


Edited by eyrie (09/23/08 10:45 PM)

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#407240 - 09/23/08 11:09 PM Re: A reasonable discussion of "internal" physics [Re: Zach_Zinn]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
I think he did mean it literally.

eyrie, I have you on ignore. Did you say something intelligent? Hey, where's that video you PROMISED?

You'd think a guy could atleast keep his word.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#407241 - 09/24/08 12:10 AM Re: A reasonable discussion of "internal" physics [Re: Cord]
Lucid Warrior Offline
Member

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 213
Loc: TwinCities, MN, U.S.
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Now be fair, I am learning a lot- especially that there are attachment points for the biceps and triceps on the pelvis/lumbar vertebrae





That isn't what he said....I think that's why he put it in the context of a 'phantom limb'...im' pretty sure he knows that your arms don't actually attach to your psoas.




Really? I only respond to what is written:

Quote:

To begin with, the arms and legs donít stop at the hips and shoulders. I know, the bone does stop there, so it seems logical to assume thatís the end. However, the tendons/muscles of the legs and arm actually attach in the waist area









Lol, taken out of context, that part you highlighted would sound quite insane. Contained in the rest of the text was the part where I mentioned the psoas, as the example. What I am suggesting, is that the psoas are a muslce of the leg, not the back or abdominal region. Thus, if I say that the muscles of the leg attach on the lumbar near the diaphragm, it actually makes sense within that context. This was already in my first post, but whatever. I'm sure the way I wrote it could have been misleading. I just sorta took for granted that some people here would know what I'm talking about from personal experience and pick it up. I didn't realize how that might sound otherwise.

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#407242 - 09/24/08 12:56 AM Re: A reasonable discussion of "internal" physics [Re: Lucid Warrior]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Quote:

I just sorta took for granted that some people here would know what I'm talking about from personal experience and pick it up.


Which is TELLING isn't it, how much some of these people ACTUALLY do know or think they know? You'd think that, since they say they know, that they'd know what you were talking about, instead of taking it literally, and out of context, and avoiding the topic by making assinine requests about video.... which has nothing to do with the topic.

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#407243 - 09/24/08 02:02 AM Re: A reasonable discussion of "internal" physics [Re: eyrie]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
I took nothing out of context. The quote is complete in its meaning, and says what it says. The following talk of 'phantom limbs' merely undermines the validity of the user name 'lucid' warrior.
Eyrie, I have already had the discussion regarding the 'internal is external' dichotomy, and you have alrwady conceded that point 2 previous threads, one of which ended with you attacking other posters on there for being MMA junkies when that was nothing to do with the points being discussed.

Now, for clarity, the musculature of the arms have origin points within the shoulder capsule, and also on the scapula. The insertion points are below the elbow joint. This allows elbow flexion and extension, and also for the lats and traps to engage in conjunction with the arms for pulling motions.
There is a biomechanical relationship that engages the entirety of the back, hip and leg musculature together to stabilise and allow maximum power to be communicated throughout the body- it is called the 'posterior chain' but it has nothing to do with 'phantom limbs' or attachment points for all muscles coming from the waist.

Now, if that is what 'lucid' warrior was trying to convey, then he failed, by using misleading terminology (a running theme in all these threads), and a resultant limited understanding of how it actually works.

If a tribesman in a remote delta tells you 'the gods of wind lift the feathers on the arrow and turn it into a hunting bird that can travel only so far from the bow', its clear he understands on an instinctive level some of the laws behind what is going on.
I still wouldnt fly in a plane he built though
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#407244 - 09/24/08 02:16 AM Re: A reasonable discussion of "internal" physics [Re: Cord]
Zach_Zinn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
Thanks for sealing the deal with me and FA.com Cord, BrianS, and everyone else who's used this thread as just another way to bash other people and whatever it is they do, you guys need to grow up, honestly.

Why did you guys feel compelled to continue posting to this thread? Why is it that 90% of what you post lately is derogatory nonsense in threads you seemingly wouldn't even take an interest in?

Could you not just leave it alone? As far as i'm concerned FA.com belongs to you guys and the rest of the bullshido jr. crew now, have fun with what's left of it now that you've slowly driven away everyone that doesn't share your viewpoint.

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#407245 - 09/24/08 02:25 AM Re: A reasonable discussion of "internal" physics [Re: Cord]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
AFAIK, a "discussion" is one in which a person offers some information, another person provides alternative viewpoints and additional information as to why the original information or written expression of such information is flawed.

It is not, where one person offers information, and the others beat him down and denigrate with derogatory comments and insults, while pimping the aliveness and resistance/it's all the f**ing same thing" mantra, or making tangential snipes as to the person or character of the person.

Quote:

There is a biomechanical relationship that engages the entirety of the back, hip and leg musculature together to stabilise and allow maximum power to be communicated throughout the body- it is called the 'posterior chain'


Now... was THAT soooo hard to say without going into some tangential diatribe and snide remarks?

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#407246 - 09/24/08 02:30 AM Re: A reasonable discussion of "internal" physics [Re: Zach_Zinn]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

Thanks for sealing the deal with me and FA.com Cord, BrianS, and everyone else who's used this thread as just another way to bash other people and whatever it is they do, you guys need to grow up, honestly.

Why did you guys feel compelled to continue posting to this thread? Why is it that 90% of what you post lately is derogatory nonsense in threads you seemingly wouldn't even take an interest in?




How can you have a 'point of view' about where the muscles of the body attach to the bones?

If someone wants to talk about how the body works, then if they are wrong about certain aspects of that theory, should they not be offered more info in order to correct them?
Could a better understanding of what they are trying to articulate not improve their situation?
I have never bashed an art in my life- I am hoping to meet up with Gavin to do some of his Tai Chi soon, I have not attacked anyone on here either. I reserve the right to correct basic lack of anatomical knowledge when I see it because a mistake is a mistake.

I thought 'internal arts' taught you to absorb and use others forces against them? This obviously doesnt reach as far as conversation, you are as brittle as sugar glass.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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