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#406242 - 09/02/08 02:00 AM How do you train fundamentals?
Zach_Zinn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
So there it is, call it kihon, basics, whatever...how do you train things like chudan-uke (middle block), chudan-tsuki (middle level punch), mae geri (front kick) etc...

Do you vary your methods based on the person or do you have a set way of teaching them? Do you start people with solo practice only or do you integrate partner work right away?

I'm not really asking about what mechanics you think are correct or anything, that could be for another thread, but rather what you general method is in teaching these things to newer students.

I'll go first, the first thing I usually do is sanchin walking, first the basic form, then with some pressure applied to make sure they understand what it feels like to move from the tanden and not just trying to step like they do normally, only in Sanchin stance, which seems to be what most folks do at first.

I usually move pretty quickly into partner work with most folks, depending on the people you can start with one doing moving chudan-tsuki, the other doing chudan-uke moving back and forth with varying speed, intensity, rythm etc.

My own experience has been that someone's understanding of these fundamental techniques is going to determine how they deal with training applications, any kind of sparring done etc.

In the time i've been teaching I worry sometimes that maybe I haven't spent enough time on these skills with some students, as I tend to move pretty quickly to application and such.

I personally don't like the whole "stand in a line and do this" method of training this stuff, so I am always looking for new ways to show it's relevancy without boring anyone to death.


P.S. I hope my translations were ok, wasn't trying to be obnoxious, but I know some people don't use Japanese terms.


Edited by Zach_Zinn (09/02/08 02:13 AM)

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#406243 - 09/02/08 03:42 AM Re: How do you train fundamentals? [Re: Zach_Zinn]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
pretty much all our Kihon is done in the form of kata, I do break it down into singles and combis according to the students need for rep's.

Bunkai is learned from day one so application in 2 man sets is worked straight away with the kata, this always allows for variations and ideas to happen as we work the kata technique as well.

im not a great technican, prefering to focus on application as needed and long term skill building.

also the physical conditioning of each tool is important in the early years so we have many excersises and drills for this to support the kihon.
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Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#406244 - 09/02/08 03:54 AM Re: How do you train fundamentals? [Re: shoshinkan]
dandjurdjevic Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/10/08
Posts: 844
Loc: Australia
Heck - I go back to the line stuff from time to time and realise how necessary it is. But after almost 30 years I'm bored stiff with it, so I tend to avoid such practise even though I shouldn't.

Yes, I'm always trying to come up with different ways of practising basics. A type of drill I thought of a while back is the "happo" where you practise the same kihon application with a total of 8 turns. You can take portions or adaptations of kata and work them into endless combinations. It's fun to get them flowing fast.

Here are a few that might give you some inspiration for your own ideas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JY8E1XwWFrI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q867I6j4tA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn21Mi1dM1o

Also I like to vary my blocking practise in simple 2 person sets which double as ude tanren. Take a look at my article below which has some videos embedded in it:

http://dandjurdjevic.blogspot.com/2008/08/variations-in-ude-tanren-forearm.html
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#406245 - 09/02/08 04:33 AM Re: How do you train fundamentals? [Re: dandjurdjevic]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
hi Dan,

thanks or the links I liked some of the 2 man stuff, appriciate that.

re solo work I think the kata is enough for us, the rest should be working with partners through fixed, semi fixed and free drills and then into spontaneous attacks etc etc, just our emphasis of course.
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#406246 - 09/02/08 04:51 AM Re: How do you train fundamentals? [Re: shoshinkan]
dandjurdjevic Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/10/08
Posts: 844
Loc: Australia
Quote:

re solo work I think the kata is enough for us




I can't argue with that!
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http://www.dandjurdjevic.com/

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#406247 - 09/02/08 04:59 AM Re: How do you train fundamentals? [Re: dandjurdjevic]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...32#Post15748321

Here is what I wrote about line work long ago. I feel pretty much the same way,but there are different ways that are just as good.

the instructor needs to watch the students do things repetetively so he can correct them. I think this is one reason why line drills were made. No, it's not cool,but by changing basic things are we getting farther away from karate? Or is karate about ever changing?
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The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#406248 - 09/02/08 06:16 AM Re: How do you train fundamentals? [Re: BrianS]
puffadder Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/07
Posts: 250
Loc: UK
I'm not a karate man but when teaching basic skills we start with the basic coordination - getting arms, legs, waist in right postition to start with. Then get that position right relative to an unmoving opponent so they have the right distance etc. Then a moving opponent to start getting timing right. The opponent changes speed, direction etc so the student needs to change the angles and timing while maintaining the general coordination. Then when they can coordinate the movement timed to an opponents move we add power, then speed. Mixing all this in with form work to make movement transitions smooth and partner work that goes from fixed positions to gradually decreasing the limits all the way to uncontrolled sparring.

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#406249 - 09/02/08 06:34 AM Re: How do you train fundamentals? [Re: BrianS]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
interesting blast from the past - I may be mad but at least im consistantly non conformist re these things !
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#406250 - 09/02/08 08:39 AM Re: How do you train fundamentals? [Re: shoshinkan]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
I think line work is a good thing. I think it also develops a sense of your surroundings. Especially in a small dojo with a big class..:) Almost like kumite..
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90 percent of good abs is your nutrition

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#406251 - 09/02/08 10:47 AM Re: How do you train fundamentals? [Re: JasonM]
dandjurdjevic Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/10/08
Posts: 844
Loc: Australia
I think I said above, I occasionally do line work and realise how important it is. People who don't do this kind of training don't realise just what they're missing in terms of building, refining and conditioning basic skill.

When Matsui sensei (Kyokushinkai champion) was asked how he developed such devastating front kicks he replied "endless repetitions (i.e. in line work)...
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