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#405108 - 09/27/08 12:21 PM Re: the belief mechanism [Re: Ed_Morris]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
I'm not sure if this has been asked yet, sorry if it has, but what do you all think about whether or not we "choose" what we believe? I suppose you can compartmentalize something in order to believe it when it doesnt agree with something else, doublethink you know or denial, but really, if we know the truth can we actually believe something else?
I know a guy whose always hounding me for not believing the way he does, and tells me I can decided to believe or not and my response is, when I know (or think I know) the truth how can I "believe" anything else? Even if I try to compartmentalize or something to accept 2 contradicting ideas, there is still some major unbelief going on hence why I would need to do that. I think that, deep down, you believe what you believe and you can't do a anything to change that.

Mod note: edited for swearing and religious reference.


Edited by harlan (09/27/08 12:40 PM)

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#405109 - 09/30/08 10:30 PM Re: the belief mechanism [Re: Stormdragon]
Ed_Morris Offline
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Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
I'll assume the basic gist of your question was not lost during mod editing.

"if we know the truth can we actually believe something else?"

From what I've seen so far, the only constant is that things can and do change - including minds, beliefs and truths.


another way to look at your question is to ask:

"if we already have a belief, can we actually know the truth?"

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#405110 - 10/01/08 02:53 PM Re: the belief mechanism [Re: Ed_Morris]
JMWcorwin Offline
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Registered: 07/13/07
Posts: 731
Loc: SoCal, USA
"Beliefs are fine... I just think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier. People fight for them; people die for them... people take a good idea and ruin it by making a belief structure out of it."

One of my favorite philosophical movie lines that just seemed to fit this thread perfectly.

The main thing I got from my study in philosophy is , imo, belief and truth are oxymorons. These concepts themselves are never truly attainable. We only have theories that haven't been disproved yet .

edit- well belief is attainable but whether or not the belief is correct is unattainable. Do truths make our beliefs or do our beliefs make truths? Both? Neither?


Edited by JMWcorwin (10/01/08 03:05 PM)
_________________________
There are no PERFECT techniques, only perfect execution for the situation at hand. ~Corwin

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#405111 - 10/03/08 03:39 AM Re: the belief mechanism [Re: JMWcorwin]
BrianS Offline
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Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Faith, hope, and love. Three things I believe in deeply tht I cannot see,touch, or prove that exist.
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The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#405112 - 10/03/08 11:34 AM Re: the belief mechanism [Re: BrianS]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Brian, nothing wrong with that, but I would change these a bit and label them as things I feel. The reality of which I am secure in. The question would be then, why do you feel what you feel? And it's all good.

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#405113 - 10/05/08 12:55 AM Re: the belief mechanism [Re: Ed_Morris]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
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Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Quote:

I'll assume the basic gist of your question was not lost during mod editing.

"if we know the truth can we actually believe something else?"


"if we already have a belief, can we actually know the truth?"





Yeah these are exactly what I was meaning. Example, say you are convinced of one belief/idea, and out of irrational fear of something taught in another, for a just in case sort of thing, you change your beliefs even though the other belief/idea makes more sense. Is that really possible?
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#405114 - 10/05/08 08:42 AM Re: the belief mechanism [Re: Stormdragon]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
fear of death has proved that is possible. At the 11th hour, many people turn to beliefs they haven't believed in their whole lives. In psychology, it's described as a form of barganing.
Is it genuine? I'll let you know on my deathbed.

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#405115 - 10/05/08 09:13 AM Re: the belief mechanism [Re: Ed_Morris]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
To be precise, in the realm of beliefs, I suspect the fear of death is really fear of death of ego.

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#405116 - 10/05/08 11:07 AM Re: the belief mechanism [Re: harlan]
TKD-Skippi Offline
Member

Registered: 11/20/04
Posts: 268
Loc: Scotland, Selkirk
'There are no aethiests in fox holes'
_________________________
Do not be overcome by evil , but overcome evil with good -Romans 13:21

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#405117 - 10/09/08 11:18 PM Re: the belief mechanism [Re: TKD-Skippi]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
I guess fear can make a person believe anything, if the belief alleviates their fear, whether it's true or not.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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