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#404528 - 08/12/08 11:30 PM The same spot Begin/End W-H-Y
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
Do YOUR kata begin & end in the identical spot? If there is a genuine function (a martial principle(s)) to this action, what do you think it might be?

Jeff

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#404529 - 08/13/08 01:40 AM Re: The same spot Begin/End W-H-Y [Re: Ronin1966]
Yugen83 Offline
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Registered: 08/02/08
Posts: 110
Loc: Southern Maryland
Good question. I have heard many times that the enbusen rule was used as a way to conserve space due to the large number of practitioners and the limited amount of space in the training halls back in Japan at the time. That is one theory, I suppose.
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#404530 - 08/13/08 04:55 AM Re: The same spot Begin/End W-H-Y [Re: Yugen83]
shoshinkan Offline
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some kata are certainly designed to end up, near'ish or on the same spot you started, some are not.

personally I see no importance at all with being on the same spot, and just feel it's another 'formalisation' for group training and sport.
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#404531 - 08/13/08 07:13 AM Re: The same spot Begin/End W-H-Y [Re: shoshinkan]
Barad Offline
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Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 427
Quote:

some kata are certainly designed to end up, near'ish or on the same spot you started, some are not.

personally I see no importance at all with being on the same spot, and just feel it's another 'formalisation' for group training and sport.




I totally agree-where you end up is functionally irrelevant IMO but it seems to please the Japanese if you end up in the same spot. Maybe it is a (faux) Zen thing, kata as moving meditation, only circular and complete if you come back to the same place.

B.

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#404532 - 08/13/08 08:55 AM Re: The same spot Begin/End W-H-Y [Re: Barad]
shoshinkan Offline
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Loc: UK
yes possibly where and why it came about, alsorts of symbolism seems to have been included in kata over time,

including the mudra elements etc etc.

it's a very murky area to get any real awnsers.
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#404533 - 08/13/08 01:38 PM Re: The same spot Begin/End W-H-Y [Re: shoshinkan]
medulanet Offline
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Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Its positional coincidence. Kata are designed to train the body evenly. Therefore, generally speaking, what is done on the right is done on the left especially in the basic body development stages of karate training. If your kata are balanced and your stances are consistent and all front stances are the same, cat stances are the same, etc. you should end up within about 6 inches from where you start.
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#404534 - 08/13/08 04:44 PM Re: The same spot Begin/End W-H-Y [Re: medulanet]
shoshinkan Offline
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Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
well yes thats a given Med's
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#404535 - 09/07/08 09:11 PM Re: The same spot Begin/End W-H-Y [Re: Yugen83]
Ronin1966 Offline
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Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Yugen83:

I was curious though about YOUR practice, your kata specifically! The theory obviously makes sense from a logistics (?) standpoint, crowded space, movement highly limited unless in perfect sync with the person behind, beside, in front of you...

Maybe

Jeff

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#404536 - 09/07/08 09:15 PM Re: The same spot Begin/End W-H-Y [Re: shoshinkan]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
What do you make of the observation that different CHINESE arts, (IMA's) often have forms that begin/end in the same spot also???

We're not talking about Wushu, but instead their elder "grand parent" arts? How would that factor in... given an entirely different culture...?

Jeff

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#404537 - 09/07/08 09:17 PM Re: The same spot Begin/End W-H-Y [Re: Barad]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Barad:

IYHO... it is an asthetics <sp.?> thing then???

Jeff

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