Ok I tried.
Saying that people can learn "something" from DVD's is a no brainer--sure they can "something"--its just a question of what and how much...and how well.
If you want to learn to drive a car, you have to get behind the wheel....just try getting your drivers license ONLY haveing watched DVD's about driving.
Can you learn "something" about it? Sure--IF the guy that made the DVD isn't a idiot....or maybe lived in say the UK where the drving was perhaps seriously differnt---or if your in the UK-switch the example.
Go tell the next guy you interview with for a job that you have no actual hands on training nor did you take actual classes from experts in the field in collge BUT that you have watched many DVD's about the job so your perfectly qualified to do the job.
You seem really hung up on the minutia of the word "something."
"elities telling them to shove off"
Ah, did you even read my post?
Beisides since YOUR going to assume that ANYBODY that wants people to get a real teacher--for many valid reasons...why SHOULDN'T we assume that ANYBODY that tells people that they can learn from a DVD is working their OWN agenda???????
Maybe you sell DVD's and need to drum up business....maybe your trying to shoot down the people that are giving good advice about the serious limitations of DVD instuction.....maybe you got most of your training by DVD and are now trying to desperatly rationalize your lack of real training.....maybe you took your sucky DVD training to a real school and got laughed off the mat and nor rather than face hard cheese truth that you really didn't get good training by DVD your trying to pretend that its everyone ELSE that has a problem...its EVERYONE else that is an "elitist."
Nope, people can get hurt and hurt others pretty much anywhere----in climbing were not even in a "classroom" were out on a face where you need to really know what your doing or people can get really hurt.
Im martial arts, you could be trying to use what your ahm..."learned" from your DVD to defend yourself--and it could easily fail--and you could get hurt.
You could be doing something dangeous and not even know it----seriously hurt a buddy while you guys were trying out what you saw on your DVD.
BTW I very much DO "care" about people getting hurt---you have never met me, don't know me at all, but since I disagree with you POV I MUST be a bad guy that does not care about people...sheesh.
"Only option avalible"
Yeah, I hear that alot...and most of the time its really just a rationalization....there is training avalible if your willing to make an effort.
I have a buddy that spends 2 weekends a month making a nearly 500 mile trip just to train.
People change up their whol elives just to go to Japan, China, etc just to train....people work 2 jobs, some people could make a crap load more money doing something else but they could not train so they stick with the boring dead end job--FOR NOW
I have a buddy that used to get off work at 6:00 and make a 2 hour drive just to train with the one the experts of his system---train until 10 or so then make a 2 hour trip back---and I needed to be a work at 7:00 the next day--I'd do this 2-3 sometime 4 times a week for 5-6 YEARS.
Most of the time there is training IF you want their to be.
In those few cases where there is not? Tough call, what I often tell people is that they need to focus on really getting shape so they will be ready when they move someplace where they can get training.
If they are really stuck then they should join a group with a buddy where the can travel to train as often as possible--and practice what they learned in-between sessions.....I know of people in Canada that only make the training sessions 6 times a year....takes longer to get ahead but they seem to feel its worth it.
If you have NO other option than DVD's...and there are such people....then IMO you do what you have do...BUT SAY THAT AND SIMPLY ACPEPPT that its not a good being there and getting real teaching....don't give a lot of post-hoc rationaliztions about it somehow being just as good.
Sounds like your selling something...either to others or maybe yourself...or both.
"without the book/dvd theyed have never bothered to go seek instuctiuon"
Where is that written that all students ONLY seek out training from reading books and seeing DVD's?
That makes no sense at all---everytime some new martial arts movie comes out people get swarmed with people---people whom generally quit because the movie and the training didn't match.
Hell, talk to the folks that survived the Teenage Mutant Ninja crazy of the late 80's.
Like I said, most of the time the books and DVD;s don't match what people are doing anyway---so we gotta UNTEACH a student that resents us for it--and not only does it take longer to unteach a student--they genrally quit more often--so its a waste of time all around.
"We can only gain by helping these people"
And in my opinion we help them BEST by advocating quality "hands on" insturction from experienced teachers......not telling people that they can and should learn from books and DVD's.
IMO we help them best by helping people to make informed choices.
IMO we help them best by being honest with the serious limitations of using books and DVD's as "stand-ins" for proper instruction.
IMO we help them best by helping them to understand that although "something" can be gleaned from books and DVD's they are NOT acceptible subsitutes for actual hands on training.....indeed they can often be quite detrimental to it.
We, IMO, help them best by being HONEST with them.....even if some of them don't like hearing it.
Ask yourself whom your "really" trying to help---potential students or yourself????