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#403139 - 08/12/08 12:47 AM Re: Staffs -n- Stuff [Re: mambawaba]
brocksampson Offline
Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 112
Loc: Savannah, GA
Quote:


in conclusion, even in a fight at full distance(attacks with the arms fully extended in the end and gripping the staff on the very extremity, hitting with the other extremity), a real one when you are really trying to hit your opponent, or in a competition with non hurting equipment(even if you know you will not hurt your opponent, you really want to win and deliver a powerfull strike), no matter what, people with no MA training or very experienced fighters, on the same level, this kind of fight will never last more than a few seconds until someone gets hit(probably most would not last more than 2 seconds) the more newbies would get some bruises but the experienced fighters would inflict more tremendous damage.

with this, don't you agree that a staff fighter that practices more short range techniques is in disadvantage with fighting other that uses the full range of the staff? He would have to break the distance, and avoid a trust(tsuki? in japanese martial arts? i only know kendo) attack, and then, at closer distances its so much easier to grab the opponent's staff and punch him(that would be a problem for the one that is smaller/weaker body and would take advantage of the range of the weapon).
Cheers!




I agree that most serious FIGHTS are over in a matter of seconds once they actually begin. Probing for openings from sparring range is not the same thing at all.

I believe that the opponent who is comfortable with a variety of ranges will be much stronger in this situation. The long range guy is counting on defending at the length of the staff. His only real shot is the quick thrust. Then he has to "re-load" for the next shot. I would say that more than 60% of the time this range is easily passable with an equal length weapon. We have tried this with bo vs. sai, escrima, knife, and club and it's VERY enlightening once the shorter weapons get inside that thrust. And other strikes such as overhead and side strikes are also just invitations to close in from that range. This is why combinations are important and they are much faster when using more than one part of the staff.


In the scenario where two opponents face off with equal weapons(full staff in this case) the one with the most training SHOULD have the advantage if all else is equal. One strategy is to remain at a specific length and control the fight from there. To negate that, the other guy may close distance. Once inside, the skill level is even again. It's simply a matter of creating and maintaining pressure.

We have found that from a long range (against a bo), as soon as your opponent begins to strike, you are usually better off closing this distance and crowding him into an awkward situation. This means that you will need to be competent in a variety of ranges for your weapon. The longer the weapon, the more ranges it can be used in. We train a number of throwing techniques with a 6 foot bo as well as the long thrust, shorter "punches" and constantly using the entire weapon. There are several ranges with this weapon. the ability to attack and defend effectively while moving through them is critical.

Remember if you are close enough to hit someone, they are in range to trap your weapon. If someone releases their weapon to grab their opponents' it is basically a disarm as long as the opponent can control the distance. If not, you are fighting over a single weapon and you BETTER have some training at close range or you will give up the weapon completely. This often happens when we train and it quickly becomes a fist fight. At that range, a bo is very difficult to use if you don't control the distance quickly.

This is a very difficult way to discuss these points.
_________________________
The more I learn, the more everything is the same.

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#403140 - 08/12/08 02:05 AM Re: Staffs -n- Stuff [Re: brocksampson]
DeadlyKnuckles Offline
Member

Registered: 07/26/08
Posts: 130
Loc: United States, Florida
Yeah, so how about throwing some websites that sell good quality staves my way?

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#403141 - 08/12/08 06:18 AM Re: Staffs -n- Stuff [Re: DeadlyKnuckles]
mambawaba Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/11/08
Posts: 18
"This is a very difficult way to discuss these points."

I agree, and this kind of situations also do have so many variables, also from our different experiences. And even if i like to discuss theoretically, most of this talk can only be proved/tested practically to be worth anything, so it is normal and probably expected that we don't get to a consensus here.

but i don't see anything wrong in keep talking in a healthy manner, so,

We probably use different kind of staffs too.
i never used a "bo", but from what i have seen it is longer than the human height, in that situation i agree it is difficult to use in longer distances(we use a staff a bit smaller than a person). It also uses to have its weight on the center and the extremities are lighter right? Im used to staff with one extremity thicker than the other to favor those long range and powerfull attacks.

yes, i said that few seconds are when someone actually makes a move, the probing can be very important, mostly in competition, but that is so variable from people to people that it's hard to time.

yes, i believe that is better to be comfortable in different ranges. But on the other hand, against shorter weapons, lets say a sword, when the staff fighter is at one move/step hit distance, the sword fighter need to give 2 or 3 more steps yet, so even if the staff attack is slower(a full rotational one and not just a tap) he would still get him most of the time, and also, a sword cant easily block a powerfull staff attack, that is already hard to block even with other staff with the hands at shoulder distance for stability, most strong attacks would break or at least really disorientate a sword block(unless the staff is really light). and against sword weapons, when they break that distance they have the advantage of the blade, that means that just a lither tap(that can be really fast) puts you out of combat, and a weaker staff hit, even with a quarter rotation or more it's too weak to take someone down, so, allowing a bladed weapon to enter his one move/hit range is a suicidal situation, but it inst hard to avoid with a trust attack(if practiced correctly) of course this doesn't work with padded equipment, because the shorter ranged fighter could easily enter his comfortable distance no matter if he gets hit first, but that wouldn't happen with real weapons and full speed strikes.

yes, with equal weapons the best trained wins, but people with the same training(i know it's hard to judge), the most efficient technique wins, and is a good thing that today we can try all those situations with sparing equipment, if we keep a mind on what works and not just count every kind of hit, or on the other hand don't count the important one.

As i see it one could only break the longer distance(avoiding a thrust) if he is really superior to the other fighter, meaning, he would be able to block while moving forward, and a disarmament of other kind of attacks from here are natural to happen from the one that has that superior skill. But of course that breaking that distance can also be a strategy, i just find it a harder one.

well, sorry for the off topic DeadlyKnuckles, what do people think of e-bogu staffs (e-bogu.com)?
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#403142 - 08/12/08 10:46 AM Re: Staffs -n- Stuff [Re: mambawaba]
DeadlyKnuckles Offline
Member

Registered: 07/26/08
Posts: 130
Loc: United States, Florida
Don't worry about it, I was just making sure no one forgot about me .

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