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#403129 - 07/28/08 06:03 PM Re: Staffs -n- Stuff [Re: puffadder]
DeadlyKnuckles Offline
Member

Registered: 07/26/08
Posts: 130
Loc: United States, Florida
I never said there was anything wrong with form work. I was just recalling what I was told.

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#403130 - 07/29/08 03:32 AM Re: Staffs -n- Stuff [Re: DeadlyKnuckles]
puffadder Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/07
Posts: 250
Loc: UK
ok I just insunuated that from the sentence "Unfortunately, I was told that training there isn't cheap and that it's mostly form work."
Form work is the only real way to learn to use a staff or any other weapon. I think it's particularly important with the staff which is being trained not as a weapon in itself but to instill in you the strength and coordination to apply empty hand techniques more effectively.

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#403131 - 07/30/08 01:54 AM Re: Staffs -n- Stuff [Re: Chatan1979]
westway50 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 06/07/08
Posts: 4
Quote:


Not to be a prude, but...
You do know that saying "bow staff" or more precisely bo staff, is like saying bat bat, or my golf club club. Its redundant. to some people something like this is trivial and to others it is important because it shows your lack of knowledge about weapons. These are the same people that call nunchaku "numchuks", and swing them around like fools in their backyards as substitution for real weapon training.




i actually didnt know that bo ment staff. never really looked into it. i say bo staff because people around me say it. also the lack of knowledge behind the meaning of a word does not have any relationship to the type of training a person has gone through.

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#403132 - 08/04/08 08:26 PM Re: Staffs -n- Stuff [Re: puffadder]
mambawaba Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/11/08
Posts: 18
Quote:

I have seen many examples of people using the staff who only attack with one end of it. They are only using half or less of it's potential. If you want to learn properly seek a teacher who will teach the spins, turns and so on that will give you the full potential of this excellent weapon.




Please allow me to disagree with this.
using both sides of the stick in a real, full range fight(in a open field with 2 opponents facing each other), is a too slow of a technique to work and would actually damage the surprise effect since you would have to do allot of hand movement that is too slow for a full speed fight.
I don't say there isn't any use to it, but more when you are actually able to enter in a closer range and can use it faster (that is only doable when you are quite superior to your opponent anyway, so it doesn't add much.), but at full range, using both sides of the staff isn't very useful.

of course every technique has it's applications and different people are looking for different stuff.

Cheers!
_________________________
http://www.jogodopauportugues.com

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#403133 - 08/05/08 06:56 AM Re: Staffs -n- Stuff [Re: mambawaba]
puffadder Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/07
Posts: 250
Loc: UK
Generally we use the staff not as a weapon in its own right but as a training implement to increase strength, speed, coordination etc for empty hand combat. When used as such its an incredibly versatile weapon and can be used to train many kinds of strikes, throws and so on while aiding grip strength, speed, flexibliity and many other factors.

As far as staff on staff training goes and at full long range then you are right and one end alone would be used. If your opponent can break through to medium range then both ends would be more appropriate so it's useful to be able to use either one or both ends depending on circumstances. you could even counter 2 opponents using different ends, as a simple example striking forward with one end and back with the other to counter an attack from behind. Obviously that is over simplistic but a skilled man with a staff can use it with great skill to counter attacks from any direction with spinning defences and lunging attacks from many different angles.
As you can guess its my favourite weapon.

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#403134 - 08/05/08 07:20 PM Re: Staffs -n- Stuff [Re: puffadder]
mambawaba Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/11/08
Posts: 18
Hi, nice to know that, my favorite weapon too!

As i don't practice close combat fighting arts and rely only on the staff and baton, i tend to favor techniques that keep my opponents far away from me, and against multiple opponents when they get too close its very hard to get out of that situation safely(specially if they are of the same skill and have the same weapon as you).

Thats why i wanted to focus on the importance of using the staffs full length and speed(that means that there cant me much hand changes and you have to grip on one extremity and hit with the other) in my opinion that is the most important skill to be proficient with the staff, because it's the safest and more lethal(using the full length and rotational moves generates more power), and should be preferably used unless it's impossible to(no space, or opponents to close), but any other closer range and versatile set of skills is something i definitely wanna look in the future as a resource.

Cheers!
_________________________
http://www.jogodopauportugues.com

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#403135 - 08/06/08 08:25 AM Re: Staffs -n- Stuff [Re: mambawaba]
puffadder Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/07
Posts: 250
Loc: UK
The changing hand positions thing is another good reason for staff training. It teaches students to grab and release which many seem to have a problem with. When they grab an arm they hang on to it and find it hard to let go. I think staff training helps a lot in learning to grab then release and strike very quickly. The ability to open hand block, close hand grab, open hand release and close fist strike seems to take most people ages to get without staff training.

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#403136 - 08/09/08 12:32 PM Re: Staffs -n- Stuff [Re: mambawaba]
brocksampson Offline
Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 112
Loc: Savannah, GA
I agree that you need to be able to use a weapon in it's most advantageous range. However, the way you described leaves you with a one-shot, one range weapon. I guess that's OK for banging sticks with an opponent but it makes for a long fight when you never get to actually hit them!
_________________________
The more I learn, the more everything is the same.

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#403137 - 08/09/08 07:28 PM Re: Staffs -n- Stuff [Re: brocksampson]
DeadlyKnuckles Offline
Member

Registered: 07/26/08
Posts: 130
Loc: United States, Florida
Yeah, about those staff sellers...

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#403138 - 08/11/08 08:22 PM Re: Staffs -n- Stuff [Re: DeadlyKnuckles]
mambawaba Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/11/08
Posts: 18
puffadder - its great to see how you use the staff as a learning/teaching tool and can teach principles that can be adapted for other kinds of fighting.

Brocksampson, im sorry if i have some difficulties with my English, i will try to give my view about the situation you described applied to what i said.

About the one-range one-shot, yes, i agree that you should train different range techniques, but it's more important to better control the one that gives you more advantage, and you should also train to keep that advantage/distance so you can beat them without getting in danger in the first place.

About the long fight without anyone getting hit, and banging sticks, i don't see that happen in a real fight or competition.
let me elaborate:

when i see banging staffs with no hits for a long time:
1- practitioners don't have basic notions of distance and are striking to the opponent's staff instead of the body, you can go crazy fast here but doesn't do much in a real situation.

2- both very experienced fighters attack to the opponents body and can block high speed, random attacks and counter attack several times. and this can last for long.

in the first situation, i agree that is not staff fighting, it's just people having fun.

in the second situation, it's not actually staff fighting too, because even if the attacks are fast and powerfull, this kind of fight its never at full speed and is always somewhat controlled, even if it is a great exercice.

in conclusion, even in a fight at full distance(attacks with the arms fully extended in the end and gripping the staff on the very extremity, hitting with the other extremity), a real one when you are really trying to hit your opponent, or in a competition with non hurting equipment(even if you know you will not hurt your opponent, you really want to win and deliver a powerfull strike), no matter what, people with no MA training or very experienced fighters, on the same level, this kind of fight will never last more than a few seconds until someone gets hit(probably most would not last more than 2 seconds) the more newbies would get some bruises but the experienced fighters would inflict more tremendous damage.

with this, don't you agree that a staff fighter that practices more short range techniques is in disadvantage with fighting other that uses the full range of the staff? He would have to break the distance, and avoid a trust(tsuki? in japanese martial arts? i only know kendo) attack, and then, at closer distances its so much easier to grab the opponent's staff and punch him(that would be a problem for the one that is smaller/weaker body and would take advantage of the range of the weapon).

sorry for the long post, but i really like to know what other people think and would like to know you opinion about it too.

Cheers!
_________________________
http://www.jogodopauportugues.com

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