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#402923 - 07/22/08 08:00 PM chisao forward pressure
skinters Offline
Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 239
Loc: swansea,wales
for those who practice wingchun do you advocate soft or hard forward pressure when doing chisao .when i first started doing chisao i was told to relax the arms and they were to stiff.these days i rather forward pressure than soft,as with soft i just dont feel anything and get caught quite often but when i apply more pressure im more able to detect my apponents intentions more .

ive read so many articles saying soft is the right way and harder forwards pressure working for others or a mixture of the two .

its very confusing but im starting to think aslong as your not using up your energy pressing forwards more its very much a personal thing .

any veiws?
_________________________
if only we could strike with the eyes - from the thought to the fist how much time is lost ?

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#402924 - 07/22/08 11:52 PM Re: chisao forward pressure [Re: skinters]
MattJ Offline
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I guess I am more "soft" than "forward", but being soft facilitates forward pressure, IMHO.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#402925 - 07/23/08 01:51 AM Re: chisao forward pressure [Re: MattJ]
IExcalibui2 Offline
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Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 961
Loc: New York City
Soft definitely trains your sensitivity and reaction time more, I would think, because your taking a defensive approach. Seems to be more of a Taichi like feel I would say.I've trained in Southern Praying Mantis, not quite WC but very similar. But for better fighting purposes I would go with forward pressure. Learn to disable the guy before he can start and come in close to finish the job. Depends on how you want to perceive things I guess?
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"you're going to work till you wish you were dead and then keep going.." -Sgt Slaughter

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#402926 - 07/23/08 10:40 AM Re: chisao forward pressure [Re: skinters]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
You want to keep forward pressure on, but use it from the elbows. The shoulders and wrists should be relaxed, but the elbows drive forward. A lot of wing chun folk think this is achieved by leaning in, or hardening up their arms to bore into the center line, but this is wrong. Only with proper elbow position and energy (gung lik) can you stay relaxed AND keep forward pressure on. When you feel that you are being over powered, try sinking in your stance, tucking your butt in and pressing more from the elbows.
Unfortunately, the only way to cultivate more power in this manner is by diligent Siu Lim Tau practice - at least that's all I've found to work. The first section should be done slowly with every conscious moment concentrated on your elbow movement and the overall position of your body (this will help with that 'two hands, one brain' issue).
The first SLT section is the Beowulf of WC (the book, not the movie). It can be a real drag to get through. But trust me, after a couple years of practicing it, I am amazed by how well I can hold my position - and I only weigh like 140.
Good luck

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#402927 - 07/23/08 12:43 PM Re: chisao forward pressure [Re: skinters]
donchisau Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/06
Posts: 73

This can be a bit confusing. You want to think and use forward intent not forward pressure.
Forward pressure works fine against those without a proper stance but if someone has a stance you are just giving them energy to manipulate and use.

The energy should come from the proper alignment of the joints from the ground to the knees to the hips up the spine through the shoulders to the elbows and out the hands.

If alignment is correct you will be loose and relaxed yet your opponent will feel tremendous pressure. They will act as though you are exerting force yet you will feel as though you are as relaxed as when you are sleeping.

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#402928 - 07/23/08 12:54 PM Re: chisao forward pressure [Re: donchisau]
MattJ Offline
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Quote:


This can be a bit confusing. You want to think and use forward intent not forward pressure.
Forward pressure works fine against those without a proper stance but if someone has a stance you are just giving them energy to manipulate and use.




I agree, Don. That is exactly what I was thinking of in my post.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#402929 - 07/23/08 07:03 PM Re: chisao forward pressure [Re: MattJ]
skinters Offline
Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 239
Loc: swansea,wales
im looking at it in the way apply the pressure that IM comfortable with and not just following the other persons pressure ..for example i was doing chisao and getting hit to much for my liking partly due to times of poor structure but for me i was to soft once i began to apply MY pressure he couldnt get through and was trying to muscle his way in and i could react better .
_________________________
if only we could strike with the eyes - from the thought to the fist how much time is lost ?

Top
#402930 - 07/24/08 09:39 AM Re: chisao forward pressure [Re: skinters]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
Just remember that at a beginning level, chi sao is a great platform to screw things up as much as possible. If you're engaging in perfect chi sao, you're doing a two-man form, not a functional drill. Try to change what you do constantly while rolling, avoid getting rythmic and predictable. Learn to completely control yourself before you try to control an opponent. Above all, let yourself get hit trying to do something right rather than relying on habits that keep you safe now, but might be your undoing later on down the line.
Have fun.

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#402931 - 07/24/08 05:14 PM Re: chisao forward pressure [Re: ShikataGaNai]
skinters Offline
Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 239
Loc: swansea,wales
thanks

im at that stage where its so easy to let my ego govern my responses,if i get hit its nothing personal but what do you do with someone who wants to give his ego a boost and get a few shots off ?...im learning all the time and trying to keep my cool with it ..but to me chisao is a real big test in how you handle your emotions its so easy to get wound up.
_________________________
if only we could strike with the eyes - from the thought to the fist how much time is lost ?

Top
#402932 - 07/24/08 11:03 PM Re: chisao forward pressure [Re: skinters]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
Just pay attention, work hard on your kung fu. Don't worry about another's ego - try not to see it as you try not to see your own. Like I said, it's a process of learning to control yourself, then learning to control others (especially when they get puffed up). This philosophy extends well beyond fighting, but it's imperative to it. A fight is a struggle for control.

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