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#402067 - 07/14/08 04:53 PM Site sugg: update FAQ/rules to include...
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
...use of PM function to harass other members as grounds to ban users.

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#402068 - 07/14/08 05:08 PM Re: Site sugg: update FAQ/rules to include... [Re: harlan]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Absolutely!
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#402069 - 07/21/08 01:44 PM Re: Site sugg: update FAQ/rules to include... [Re: BrianS]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Does anybody even monitor stuff like this? Does anybody actually read the Faq/rules?

Can't say I ever received any harassment through the PMs, you guys must be hardcore. But I agree, if you are being harassed by means of this then those should be able to be forwarded to the Administrator and the person banned.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#402070 - 09/30/08 03:00 AM Re: update FAQ/rules to include... Hey ZZ!!! [Re: harlan]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

...use of PM function to harass other members as grounds to ban users.




Can we get an answer on this?
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#402071 - 09/30/08 06:29 AM Re: update FAQ/rules to include... Hey ZZ!!! [Re: BrianS]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
I think we need to move carefully with this. I agree that harassment could be a problem, but, how would this be handled? In the past, moderators urged people to "take private" their differences. Now we may possibly be banned for having done so?

Why couldn't we just not read or delete those PMs we find offensive? Just a question.

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#402072 - 09/30/08 06:38 AM Re: update FAQ/rules to include... Hey ZZ!!! [Re: JKogas]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
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Registered: 11/04/05
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We can stop pm's,but not to just one user.

If a particular person wants to continually harrass us via pm should we have to take it? I don't believe so.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#402073 - 09/30/08 12:45 PM Re: update FAQ/rules to include... Hey ZZ!!! [Re: BrianS]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
I think that it's easy for a member to feel that they have been targeted for harassment...and it's a lot easier to see this in public posts. However, PM's are another world where it is harder to verify.

Currently, we are not able to resend any PMs that we receive on to another/admin for review. Don't know if Admin can read these PMs or not...but the fact that communication is done outside of any monitering eyes makes it very prone to abuse.

We should set some kind of rule on this. If a member feels that they have been threatened, or abused, all emails should be reviewed by admin...and banning results.

I wonder...is there anyone here up on the current laws that involve internet harrassment, and site responsibility?

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#402074 - 09/30/08 02:55 PM Re: update FAQ/rules to include... Hey ZZ!!! [Re: JKogas]
Zombie Zero Offline
Compliance & Liability
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Registered: 06/17/05
Posts: 1987
Loc: Lorton, VA
I agree with Kogas on this one. If someone is sending you harassing PMs, you can just delete them unread.

Banning because of PM presents a slippery slope. What if they are sending messages to your email?

Hopefully, when the software is updated, it will include an "ignore this user" function.
_________________________
In my walk in the martial way, my hope is that as long as I live, I will always be a beginner.

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#402075 - 09/30/08 04:39 PM Re: update FAQ/rules to include... Hey ZZ!!! [Re: Zombie Zero]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Ditto what JKogas and ZZ said. We'll just have to wait for a decent forum upgrade.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#402076 - 10/01/08 01:13 AM Re: update FAQ/rules to include... Hey ZZ!!! [Re: Zombie Zero]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Okie dokie! Thanks for the input!
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#402077 - 10/01/08 05:14 PM Re: update FAQ/rules to include... Hey ZZ!!! [Re: JKogas]
Kravinatrix Offline
Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 52
Loc: ESSEX
Quote:


Why couldn't we just not read or delete those PMs we find offensive?



Lmao if you dont read the PM then how would your know it was offensive lol.

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#402078 - 10/01/08 09:22 PM Re: update FAQ/rules to include... Hey ZZ!!! [Re: Kravinatrix]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
Kravinatrix,

It's common sense. If you're being harassed by someone, you'd know this by their first offensive PM, which you would THEN delete, and refuse to further read any subsequent ones by the offender.

At least, that's what I meant to imply

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#402079 - 10/02/08 08:24 AM Re: update FAQ/rules to include... Hey ZZ!!! [Re: JKogas]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
I don't think anyone should have to endure harrassment in order to participate in a community. I think the above statements do not understand that having 'differences of opinion' and taking it to PM...is not the same as harrassment. If one is willing to discuss something via PM...that is fine. The 'take it to PM' is often invoked because two or more strong egos are 'at it'...bashing each other...and messing up the place publicly. If they want to abuse each other, and are willing to do so via PM...that is their perogative. However, once someone states, 'Do not PM me anymore'...further communication by the other constitutes harrassment. Also, as in public posts, any PMs that include verbage that could be construed as 'threatening', or break the basic/stated rules/faqs of the forum should fall under the umbrella of 'harrassment'.

Privately, or publicly, harrassment is not in keeping with the overall mission of this forum...and we should have clarification on it.

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#402080 - 10/02/08 08:35 AM Re: update FAQ/rules to include... Hey ZZ!!! [Re: Zombie Zero]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
I believe we just did.

Quote:

I agree with Kogas on this one. If someone is sending you harassing PMs, you can just delete them unread.

Banning because of PM presents a slippery slope. What if they are sending messages to your email?

Hopefully, when the software is updated, it will include an "ignore this user" function.


_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#402081 - 10/02/08 08:39 AM Re: update FAQ/rules to include... Hey ZZ!!! [Re: MattJ]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
What is the objection to defining harrassment, and addressing it (vs. ignoring it)?

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#402082 - 10/02/08 09:26 AM Re: update FAQ/rules to include... Hey ZZ!!! [Re: harlan]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
you agree to these terms and conditions every time you post and/or read content here - that includes your PM mailbox.

http://www.fightingarts.com/aboutus/terms.php

I'm not a lawyer, but the way I read it is, that they will try and curb objectionable content, but are not obligated to do so. This is a commercial 'use at your own risk' public-accessable forum - which includes anything you voluntarily choose to access and read, including the account mailbox. This isn't like a town meeting hall where we have the right to be here and be heard. It's a commercial site with a registration membership fee that happens to be $0. It isn't constructed so that people may exercise their right of free speech, it's constructed to pull people into advertisment space.

walking into a public town hall and giving your opinion is your right. However, remember that this is not a publically funded site, it's a commercial one.

If a user on a comercial site forum is being abused in any way, what that user should do, in my opinion, is stop using the site, and contact the owner via e-mail....continue to not use the site until a reply/resolution is in place.

If the harrassment is thru your personal e-mail account, then file a complaint with that provider.

In my opinion.

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#402083 - 10/02/08 09:29 AM Re: update FAQ/rules to include... Hey ZZ!!! [Re: Ed_Morris]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Thanks, Ed. So, by extension, PM's are covered by these rules, and 'harrassment' falls under the 'objectionable' category.

Sticking point here is that the site owner has little to do with the daily operations of the forum. By default, the moderators/admin are the ones that need to be contacted.

'Profanity, obscene language, insults, criticism of other arts, styles or individuals, or the impersonation of other individuals should be avoided in any Forum Submission. In addition, you may not upload to FightingArts.com, or distribute or otherwise publish through FightingArts.com, any Content or Submissions that are libelous, defamatory, obscene, pornographic, threatening, abusive, illegal or otherwise objectionable, or that constitute or would encourage a criminal offense, violate the rights of any party, or otherwise give rise to liability or violate any law. FightingArts.com reserves the right (but is not obligated) to monitor all Forum Submissions and to remove or refuse to post any communication which FightingArts.com in its sole discretion determines should be removed or not posted."

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#402084 - 10/02/08 09:37 AM Re: update FAQ/rules to include... Hey ZZ!!! [Re: harlan]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

What is the objection to defining harrassment, and addressing it (vs. ignoring it)?




Wasn't ignoring it, per the rules.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#402085 - 10/02/08 10:11 AM Re: update FAQ/rules to include... Hey ZZ!!! [Re: MattJ]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Sorry, Matt. Miscommunication on my part. Didn't mean to infer you were ignoring the topic.

What I meant, was that there was an idea that we should not take up the topic, and resort to letting the member address it by using an 'ignore' function in new software. Effectively, this is turning a blind eye and admin allowing harrassment to continue and go unaddressed.

The rules are already clear: break them and be banned. Other members complained of perceived harrassment via PM and wanted it clarified. I think Ed has pointed out that it's already covered in the 'Terms...' With clarification, in the future, admin can enforce it. And as members, even moderators are not except.

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#402086 - 10/02/08 10:13 AM Re: update FAQ/rules to include... Hey ZZ!!! [Re: harlan]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
No problem, my bad.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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