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#401500 - 07/07/08 08:55 PM Outdoorsmen/women?
BrianS Offline
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Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Are there any people here that enjoy hunting/fishing etc?

I was taught to hunt and fish when I was very young and it has always been enjoyable.

I'm not much on hunting big game, but squirrels and rabbits are a good food source around here imo.

Fishing is great too. I fish for bass, crappie, bluegill, or catfish.

If you want to know how to get your young ones exited, teach them to fish!
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#401501 - 07/08/08 04:17 AM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: BrianS]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
I grew up on the coast, so did a lot of sea fishing as a kid. Pollock, cod, sea bass, mackerel and conga eel- all good eating.

Our history and culture means that hunting is not widely practiced in the UK. Our gun laws are prohibitive, and historicaly, hunting was the preserve of the aristocracy, as all game animals belonged to the crown. Poaching was punishable by death.
That class distinction in activity never went away, and now it is only the upper classes who tend to shoot- partridge, pheasant and Deer are the main animals, with carefully managed stock on private land being the only permissable targets. You have to pay a pretty penny for the privelidge as well.

Cant say as it bothers me much, i am the worst kind of hypocrite- I love steak, but couldnt kill a cow.
To be honest, these days, I wouldnt even want to catch a fish. I cant take any pleasure in taking a life, as I wouldnt want anyone to take mine, and I dont see I have any more inherent right to mine than a squirrel in a tree.
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#401502 - 07/08/08 07:36 AM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: Cord]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
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Loc: York PA. USA
Can't say I'm much of an outdoorsman. I did use to do a bit of small-game hunting with BB rifles when I was a kid. Fished once, actually enjoyed it. There is a great mountain bike trail I used to ride when I lived in Maryland, but now I mostly ride in the streets around my neighborhood.
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#401503 - 07/08/08 06:07 PM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: Cord]
BrianS Offline
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Registered: 11/04/05
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Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Save a cow, eat a PETA!!!
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#401504 - 07/09/08 01:46 AM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: BrianS]
clmibb Offline
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Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 1035
Loc: South Texas, US
I enjoy hunting and fishing. For me it's usually deer, wild hogs, dove, quail, and javelina and if I fish, I only eat black drum, red drum, red snapper, and flounder. I won't touch fresh water fish and don't care much for cold water fish. It just doesn't taste right.

I was taught to shoot when I was 6. I started off with a little Daisy .22. and now shoot my dad's rifles when I get the chance. Those chances are becoming less and less since he started working in Pennsylvania. *SIGH* That's ok I think it's just hog/javelina season right now and I have plenty of that. Of course there is always "target practice" on critters like coyotes and road runners but you can do that only for so long before you get bored. Needless to say, the fall and winter are my favorite times of the year. Dove season will open soon (I believe it starts soon after Labor Day) and I can't wait! Hopefully my dad will be home a weekend that my husband is home so that I can get out with him and bag a few birds.

Casey
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#401505 - 07/09/08 11:23 AM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: BrianS]
butterfly Offline
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Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Fishing was the big thing for me when I was young. My father and all my relatives on his side hunt and fish (midwestern upbringing), and though I never took the hunting passion up, I have no problems with ethical hunting. And, btw, there are still folk who subsistence hunt in the States.

And like Cord, I do appreciate life--I have tossed spiders out of doors since I didn't want to kill them in the home. However, there is also a connection to that cycle of life if you do hunt and fish and eat what you obtain naturally. There is an inner meshing to the predator that we are with our canines and our stereoscopic vision being used for what they were meant...seeking prey. These weren't developed necessarily to jump on the hard to catch camaflouged turnip. And in such activities, you can remark upon connecting to life and your place in it when you do hunt and fish and are in the open where the scent of petro-chemical doesn't tickle your nose from the tail pipe of a passing automobile.

What's funny is that genetically we are all much the same, but the cultural allowance for native peoples who have hunted as part of their societal ways seems never to get the same arched eyebrow as someone who was brought up hunting, but expected to tailor his upbringing to a different cut of cultural cloth than those who enjoy the same endeavors, but can say this is the "way of my people." And so it is.

There are also philosophical choices to be made in this day and age where hunting isn't the necessity it once was for many, and though I don't want to pass judgement either way, there is something to be said for a rare steak and the depressing thought of having only endless bowls of oatmeal to measure out one's last, low cholesterol days.

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#401506 - 07/09/08 11:54 AM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: butterfly]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
oh, I understand the whole 'hunter gatherer' thing, but if I were to get all 'primitive', then I would get an alotment and cultivate basic crops. Somehow, that aspect of our early heritage is never embraced as quite as glamorous, yet growing something from the very earth itself is as vital a part of the human story as hunting, and does not involve the taking of an animals life.

Forget me, when I see a coyote or a fox, I see a domestic dog, and I get racked with guilt if I stand on a snail- that is a crunchy downer on my day.

As soon as they sort out organised hunting of human perpetrators of certain crimes, then you can sign me up for that
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#401507 - 07/09/08 12:12 PM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: Cord]
harlan Offline
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Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Afraid I'm a dissappointment to my hunting family and friends. I eat meat, and if I had to, would kill one of our layer chickens for dinner. But...I don't associate sport, or enjoy the thrill of an adrenaline dump, with killing.

The sheer joy of being outdoors, and enjoying nature, and cultivating our instinctual nature to hunt and observe nature...it's a birthright and necessary for our wellbeing. As a culture, we have become dissassociated with our sensory selves...and being in nature and interacting with those that live that life is good for us. 'Hunting' doesn't necessarily have to end with a kill to be of value.

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#401508 - 07/09/08 12:41 PM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: harlan]
butterfly Offline
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Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
I'll assign this response to both Cord and Harlan, though I have come to think of multiple replies in one post as somewhat a cyber faux pas. Interesting replies and thread.

Harlan, I quite agree with you that "killing" is not necessary in order to enjoy the natural environment that we have removed ourselves from. However, when hunting (or fishing) for food is concerned, the culmination of the act is to respect what we allow into our inner sanctum, food into our bodies, knowing how it was taken and how it was processed. The recognition of food and the actions that led to our having it really is missing from the context of the super-sized burger.

This disassociation of "meat" from the act of killing, I think, has been a disservice to a great many people who enjoy the savor of sausage, or like pepperoni on their pizza. We have disguised death as the necessity of life and as a natural consequence to obtaining our food. Who would be more appreciative of a hamburger, acknowledging the exact origins of that food, a hunter or a librarian in a metropolitan area who has never ventured out into the woods? Would those who consume so readily and easily be happy with how we slaughter food animals in specially designed buildings so that they can be cut up into bite sized morsels for the masses?

The point being, that looking death in the eye and knowing that you took this life to live acknowledges something in that chain of life which you are a part of, not separate from.

Per Cord, I think raising a food garden is commendable, but in many cases hunting and gathering go together, one supplementing the other, without separation of the two. The hunter is the gatherer; and though farming allows as much appreciation of life as anything else, it is one step removed from finding food in the wilderness, but does give understanding of the necessity of plant death for food. Most of the farmers I know do hunt. And they know exactly where there food comes from. In any case, it still doesn't take away from the fact that we developed as omnivores with all the right sensory parts adapted to hunting as much as for digging roots.

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#401509 - 07/09/08 01:11 PM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: clmibb]
BrianS Offline
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Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas

Are people aware that deer kill more people in the U.S. than any other animal? Usually by running out in the road,but population control is an issue. Not the deers fault, but we can't overlook the facts.
I've always obeyed the rules and I don't kill critters for target practice or sport, I really think that's just wrong.
There are also poachers to deal with. Some people spotlight deer at night or off season.
Hunting on public land around here during deer season is just about suicidal!

Like Brad, I toss out crickets and spiders instead of killing them and I respect all life.

There have been wild hogs killed in Arkansas that weigh 500lbs or more and have 9inch tusks or longer! I'm not into hog hunting, but I accidentally stumbled on some while squirrel hunting once and ended up spending some time in a tree.

I have lots of outdoor memories, some good and some not so good.
_________________________
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#401510 - 07/09/08 05:43 PM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: harlan]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:


The sheer joy of being outdoors, and enjoying nature, and cultivating our instinctual nature to hunt and observe nature...it's a birthright and necessary for our wellbeing. As a culture, we have become dissassociated with our sensory selves...and being in nature and interacting with those that live that life is good for us. 'Hunting' doesn't necessarily have to end with a kill to be of value.




Exactly!. The finest, most attuned human hunters in the world never fire a shot- they are wildlife camera men and conservationists who track and monitor wildlife.
i would prefer to see the fruits of their efforts looking through a lense, than what happens the other end of a scope.

In Africa, there is a thriving industry geared around conservationist safari's, where you take your camera, not a rifle. This then gives local humans a financial reason to conserve their animals instead of poaching them.

If we lived in a society where we had to hunt for meat, then I would do so- that would be in keeping with nature. To hunt as some sort of pseudo-spiritual process, and take a wild animal out of its environment, when you can get that meat from farmed sock in the shop down the road, just seems completely unnecessary to me.

Also, if you want to go ancestral and primitive, go out there with a spear or bow and bolts made in the forrest. There is nothing primal about a $2000 hunting rifle.
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#401511 - 07/09/08 08:51 PM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: Cord]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Cord,

Naw. One should not be ashamed of hunting and I’ll grant that the hardest kind of hunting is with a bow for large game. Have to be within about 20 meters. Lot’s of skill.

As for the farmed meet, that is something where I personally know a couple of vegetarians who have no problem with hunters who eat what they catch, but do have a problem with those who get their meet from “food factories” and the indignities that are suffered on animals there.

And, no, I don’t think stalking an animal with a camera is the same as hunting. Not the same expectation, nor the same reasons for the pursuit, nor the same rewards though they overlap. And I am a believer that if you are not a vegetarian and have a problem with hunting one’s own food…and of course killing it, the complaint is bereft of much of its steam. I too am for conservation---you have to remember here, that at least in the States, much of the early conservation movement, including large parcels of preserved areas in national parks were the work of hunters and politicians who were hunters.

Not saying your perspective is wrong, just that it isn’t as complete as I think it might be. Of course we may disagree and agree to do so.

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#401512 - 07/09/08 11:48 PM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: Cord]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Cord, that's over the top imo.

Can't find most hunted meat at the store(squirrel, rabbit, deer). I'm not content with such a limited variety.

Took the kids fishing today. I caught two small bass and let them go. Tried to help the kids catch some,but it never happened. We saw several lake turtles, a water snake, and three deer. One fawn was only a few weeks old if that. Very cool time.
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#401513 - 07/10/08 12:27 AM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: BrianS]
dandjurdjevic Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/10/08
Posts: 844
Loc: Australia
I'm with Cord and harlan on this. I don't see any 'fun' in killing animals.

I'd do it for meat if I had to, and I don't have a problem with hunting vermin (we have introduced species like rabbit who wreck havoc on our native ecosystem). I'd hunt any vermin (without any qualms at all in the case of introduced species) to help the environment - and eat the prey if it were appropriate to do so. But I personally don't take pleasure in the act of killing.

I quite like the Kalahari Bushman custom of 'apologising' to prey after it is killed - not from any moral or logical perspective (it's clearly a pointless exercise), but because it shows the spirit in which the animal has been hunted.

As to the 'don't eat farmed food because it is produced in food factories' - I avoid caged eggs and other 'unethical' meat as much as I can. But there's a reality of feeding our burgeoning population which is hard to avoid. I have done work for our meat industry authority here and seen the process. Not pretty, but in some cases unavoidable from a logistical and economic perspective. Having said this, abbatoir slaughtering doesn't have to be done inhumanely. As a student I once worked on a farm where the farmer slaughtered a lamb for our dinner - very quickly and humanely. It was over and he was skinning it before I knew what was happening (he seemed to do it all in the time it took me to 'drench' one or 2 sheep).

The fact that I'm a carnivore prepared to eat "food factory meat" doesn't change the fact that (a) I wouldn't enjoy the act of killing an animal, even if I did choose to kill one; and (b) I'm not happy killing wild 'non-vermin' fauna who manage to cling to existence in a deteriorating global ecosystem.

And whoopin' and hollerin' because you killed something (when you're not starving) is, to me, unseemly. I don't even like people posing with fish they've caught: it seems macabre... (I respect those who disagree on this point - it's a personal reaction).

So I don't disagree with fishing or hunting - it's the type of animal and the spirit in which it is killed.

That said, if I went hunting for rabbit with Brian I wouldn't be all gloomy and depressed. I'd do what I had to do and come back to enjoy the meal. I'd enjoy the outdoors aspect. However I'd try to show the animal - whatever it is - a bit of respect...
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#401514 - 07/10/08 06:54 AM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: dandjurdjevic]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
I'll bet you'd show respect. LOL! Ever see a 200 lb, 10 pt buck up close and personal? It's all 'bambi', until he gets a good look at you, snorts, and you know he means business.

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#401515 - 07/10/08 07:22 AM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: harlan]
dandjurdjevic Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/10/08
Posts: 844
Loc: Australia
I'm sure. Same thing here in Oz. A big roo can stand 7 feet tall and rip you to shreds with its clawed hind legs (while balancing on it's tail). And yes, up till then they look sweet too.
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#401516 - 07/10/08 01:59 PM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: butterfly]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Butterfly, remember in all of this that I am an omnivore, and I believe that humans are not 'superior' animals with any extra 'rights' or privelidges than other creatures.
What our dominance and self awareness does give us however, is greater responsibility.
In a world where creatures are farmed, bred in captivity, and slaughtered in controlled and humane fashion, there is no place, as far as I am concerned, for taking the life of a wild animal.

A couple of years ago, some zoologists found a 'pocket' of completely uncharted rainforest, and became the very first humans (as far as anyone could tell) to set foot in it. They were amazed not only to find several new species, but also the interaction possible between them and the animals- there was much less 'instinctive' flight and avoidance of the humans. The animals had not developed an inbred fear of man, as they had not been exposed to our ways.

Every time I see a rabbit or a badger or a fox, I smile, and when they scurry away in instinctive fear, I feel ashamed to be human. The natural world recognises us as one of the only species to kill without need.

On the other side of the coin, I have sat feeding black squirrels at one of our properties at work, its immensely theraputic, and over time, there is one in particular who will sit one pace away from my foot while he eats what I have given him. So we sit together, and eat trail mix together.
i will bet my entire years salary that I feel every bit as close to nature in those moments as anyone watching a deer bleed out, tied to the bonnet of their pick up truck.

i like my way better.
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#401517 - 07/10/08 02:50 PM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: Cord]
grumbleweed Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/06
Posts: 446
<<In a world where creatures are farmed, bred in captivity, and slaughtered in controlled and humane fashion, there is no place, as far as I am concerned, for taking the life of a wild animal.>>

i feel less guilty eating wild caught tuna that has had some semblance of a good life compared to a factory farmed chicken. i realise a trawler caught wild tuna is not caught with any triumphalism as a line caught one. but a fish is incapable of determining the sentiment of who that is inflicting its demise, in fact what difference is there. either way the tuna is dead for human consumption.
i see nothing wrong with shooting wild rabbits to eat, i certainly take issue with people who try to run them down in cars for fun
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#401518 - 07/10/08 03:21 PM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: grumbleweed]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

i feel less guilty eating wild caught tuna that has had some semblance of a good life compared to a factory farmed chicken.




Which is more cruell Releasing an animal from a miserable life, or snuffing the good life of a free animal?

'Vermin' is a human term used to define living creatures that hamper human commerce based around agriculture.

Wolves and Bears were 'vermin' in Britain, till they were made extinct. Big Game are merely 'vermin' to the african herding tribes.

The only real 'vermin' on earth is man.


Edited by Cord (07/10/08 03:21 PM)
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#401519 - 07/10/08 03:36 PM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: Cord]
grumbleweed Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/06
Posts: 446
<<Which is more cruell Releasing an animal from a miserable life>>

better still- not put the animal in that miserable existance to begin with ....quorn isn't that bad
and god knows i've battled with my conscience to quit meat eating over the years and deep down i know catch and release fishing i take part in serves no purpose and is cruel. but i gave up neither of the two ....but being a beta male i dont catch much and fishing is just an excuse to mess about with lots of fishing tackle and shoot the breeze with my dad and other fishing mates!
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#401520 - 07/10/08 03:40 PM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: Cord]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Quote:

Butterfly, remember in all of this that I am an omnivore, and I believe that humans are not 'superior' animals with any extra 'rights' or privelidges than other creatures.
What our dominance and self awareness does give us however, is greater responsibility.
In a world where creatures are farmed, bred in captivity, and slaughtered in controlled and humane fashion, there is no place, as far as I am concerned, for taking the life of a wild animal.





Believe me, I do understand your considerations. And, again, I simply think it is a matter of perspective. In the States, because of human kind, we have managed to have taken some of the predators out of the picture so wild herds of deer have to be slaughtered or euthenized because of it. Hunting fits a function in that case for wildlife management. In cases where hunting is not allowed, they place government funded operations into affect to kill the animals so that starvation and overcrowding issues are resolved.

Also, I don't believe we have any more rights than other animals. We are both lifted up and cursed by our brains to be smarter than the creatures around us, not better. And sometimes we lack the wisdom to apply our mental powers as well as we should. But we are also omnivores and predators, as you mentioned, and having owned a dog and found he had killed rodents in the past, I'll not disabuse him that side of his being, nor consul others who hunt that this is not something right or proper when done ethically. We are stewards of the wild, if you like, and some of whom happen to be hunters who don't want the wilderness to be evaporated into some large cement covered strip mall.

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#401521 - 07/10/08 03:44 PM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: grumbleweed]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
you and I both know that livestock are monitored and shown great care. We work in environs that hold such animals, that could never be described as 'free range' or 'organic', but they are treated humanely.
Slaughter houses are strictly monitored (in the UK at least), and methods used are quick.
I merely contest that an animal born for slaughter, that would never have existed if not for the purpose of slaughter, and that has never known 'freedom' or the persuit of its nature in a free habitat, is not as tragic a death as that of an Animal born free, living its life running the gauntlet of desease, natural predators, climate and thriving over all set against it, only to be snuffed from existance by a weekend davey-crocket with a high powered rifle and thermo-scope.
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#401522 - 07/10/08 03:53 PM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: butterfly]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

Also, I don't believe we have any more rights than other animals. We are both lifted up and cursed by our brains to be smarter than the creatures around us, not better. And sometimes we lack the wisdom to apply our mental powers as well as we should. But we are also omnivores and predators, as you mentioned, and having owned a dog and found he had killed rodents in the past, I'll not disabuse him that side of his being




But dogs also have an instinct to protect territory aggressively, and to choose their own place to cr4p, and nip at small squealing children. We socialise them from a young age to teach them not to act on these instincts, we guide them into being more compatible companions.

Why then, do we not 'socialise' our own species as effectively, so as to become better companions to the Earth?
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#401523 - 07/10/08 05:08 PM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: Cord]
grumbleweed Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/06
Posts: 446
<<is not as tragic>>

so degrees of cruelty and tolerance towards it?.....either the *use* of animals for vermin humans is acceptable or not. you really cant compartmentalise this imo.
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"Irony is mainly used by the British in in order to distinguish themselves from Americans, which worked very well until the Americans had more guns than them."

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#401524 - 07/10/08 05:16 PM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: grumbleweed]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

<<is not as tragic>>

so degrees of cruelty and tolerance towards it?.....either the *use* of animals for vermin humans is acceptable or not. you really cant compartmentalise this imo.




Of course you can. Accepting that it is human nature to eat meat, and rely on the death of certain animals for staple food source is stage one. Stage two, is to use our compassion and self awareness to understand that such practice causes suffering no matter how it is done, but in that realisation, strive to find the most humane path to the meeting of our needs.

My Tattoos are black and white, the world is not.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#401525 - 07/10/08 09:08 PM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: Cord]
dandjurdjevic Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/10/08
Posts: 844
Loc: Australia
Hi Cord

Just to be clear, I use the term 'vermin' to refer to introduced species in Australia such as rabbits, cats and foxes. These threaten our fragile ecology in a profound way.
_________________________
http://www.dandjurdjevic.com/

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#401526 - 07/11/08 12:46 AM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: Cord]
grumbleweed Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/06
Posts: 446
lots of shades of grey. do you eat canned tuna?. a wild fish that has run the gauntlet of disease, other predators etc i.e. not reared and slaughtered in a controled 'humane' envioroment. if yes then your arguements are just words not actions.
_________________________
"Irony is mainly used by the British in in order to distinguish themselves from Americans, which worked very well until the Americans had more guns than them."

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#401527 - 07/11/08 10:55 AM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: grumbleweed]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

lots of shades of grey. do you eat canned tuna?. a wild fish that has run the gauntlet of disease, other predators etc i.e. not reared and slaughtered in a controled 'humane' envioroment. if yes then your arguements are just words not actions.




How can you agree with the 'shades of grey' and then try and throw an absolute at me? You fish for the thrill of the catch, not food- does that put you on the same level as an organiser of dog fights? I dont think so, but you appear to be less forgiving on the subject

I started my contribution to this whole thread by admitting a certain level of hypocrisy, and the best I can do with tuna is to ensure that it is dolphin friendly, though I have always found that a somewhat amusing concept- may as well call it '100% tuna hostile'. I have probably eaten more tuna than anyone on this board, but, in my defence, it tastes good, and tuna arent cute.
As soon as they introduced farmed, or genetically engineered/cloned tuna, I will switch to it immediately I assure you.

The thing about hunters in nature is that they are all about energy efficiency- they secure a territory, and hunt within it. They do not chase excessively long or hard for prey, as they have to balance exertion against reward, and they will happily take carrion over live prey if they can get it- its more convenient.
With this in mind, choosing convenient dead meat over playing 'Elmer Fudd' is completely in the tradition of the natural predator. Choosing to go out of your way to hunt when food is available for less effort is a warped interperetation of hunter's instinct, used to validate yet another human pastime that causes death.

The retort to this is that in taking a life, a hunter comes to know the value of a life, and in being prepared to do it, 'earns' the right to the meat on his/her plate.

I understand this argument, and, if you think about my usual ranting on topics I find emotive, I have let hunters off pretty easy on here because I truly do comprehend their reasoning and motivation.

Its just not for me.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#401528 - 07/11/08 10:58 AM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: Cord]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Hey...we could all save a wild bunny, or farmed chicken, if we just ate roadkill. Except, day old squirrel isn't too healthy.

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#401529 - 07/11/08 06:13 PM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: Cord]
grumbleweed Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/06
Posts: 446
cord i do think we're both singing from the same hymn sheet and we both have moral dilemmas on this topic and I apologise if I sounded a bit pious. anyway, only a few weeks ago my mum went to the wedding of a girl i went to school with (*we were best friends until secondary school. my mum and her mum are still close). she 'recalled' to my mum the times i used to put big black slugs on the road to be crushed by cars when waiting for the school bus. she may have been a straight A student but her memory is p*ss poor because the lads that did this (NOT ME!) were barbarians in my eyes but no way would i risk protesting with them
*explains everything
_________________________
"Irony is mainly used by the British in in order to distinguish themselves from Americans, which worked very well until the Americans had more guns than them."

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#401530 - 07/14/08 05:00 AM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: BrianS]
grumbleweed Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/06
Posts: 446
below is my favourite fishing spot, i took this picture some 22 years ago. its home to zander which are similar to walleye also theres perch, pike, tench, eel, rudd and roach and perhaps the odd carp the fishing is very good but can be fickle, it aint no easy commercial water. i love it here, in fact when i snuff it i want my ashes scattered here. apart from the odd dog walker, fellow angler or rambler nobody goes here
incidently i recall seeing people digging trenches close by and sieving earth etc and i later learned two major battles occurred right here on the river (would have been wider, heavily wooded and marshes then) in the 11th century between the armys of hereward the wake and william the conqueror, i assume now they were archeologists. from then on learning about the history of this place night fishing was especially creepy. i'm going for the day on friday

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"Irony is mainly used by the British in in order to distinguish themselves from Americans, which worked very well until the Americans had more guns than them."

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#401531 - 07/14/08 05:33 AM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: grumbleweed]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

its home to zander




You lie. Everyone knows that Zander lives in Sunnydale.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
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#401532 - 07/14/08 12:03 PM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: Cord]
grumbleweed Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/06
Posts: 446
is this a character from some obscure 80's slasher movie
_________________________
"Irony is mainly used by the British in in order to distinguish themselves from Americans, which worked very well until the Americans had more guns than them."

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#401533 - 07/14/08 12:31 PM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: grumbleweed]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#401534 - 07/14/08 04:52 PM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: MattJ]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Don't turn this thread into a PETA thing guys, geez....
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#401535 - 07/21/08 03:01 PM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: BrianS]
clmibb Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 1035
Loc: South Texas, US
GEEZ! I just re-read my post and it sounds wrong! It was written very late at night while I was on vacation and hadn't slept much. The brain was a little foggy after spending 2 days on the road with two kids and a dog in the car.

Any game animal that I kill, I eat. The only time I shoot at a coyote is if it has mange or is acting funny (like it might have rabies). Both diseases are fairly common down here and it's not fair to the animal to live it's life that way (Sorry guys I'm not catching one of those to take it to the vet).

I think from now on, the only way I'm going to make a post is in the middle of the afternoon when I'm completely awake.

Casey
_________________________
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."- Ronald Reagan


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#401536 - 07/24/08 02:40 PM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: clmibb]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Thanks for clearing that up.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#401537 - 07/27/08 09:02 PM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: BrianS]
Just1Mike Offline
No, the OTHER Mike

Registered: 12/15/05
Posts: 148
Loc: Louisiana, USA
I spend a lot of time outdoors. I fish often, in both salt and freshwater. Anything will do. Redfish, Speckled trout, Catfish, Bass and Sac a lait (crappie). I haven't hunted in 25 years though. Back then just married to my high school sweetheart, money was tight and any game in the freezer went a long way in stretching our limited funds. As the need to hunt lessened so did it's appeal, I have no idea why. I'm not in any way against it though. I still practice my archery, I have both compound and recurve bows. Compound mostly for home defence and recurve for the spirit (It's all about form don't you know). Gotta love the outdoors, Heat and humidity be darned.

Good Luck!
Mike.
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PSN: BanditsPledge Live: Schutzwaffen

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#401538 - 08/16/08 07:56 AM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: Just1Mike]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
I have pictures of me holding stringers of fish and reeling them in from when I was around 4ish. I was raised fishing, camping, and hunting but hunting never actually interested me much. Fishing is great though, trout, salmon, sunfish, catfish, etc. and I love ocean fishing most of all perhaps. Last time was in vancouver island B.C. Caught 4 or 5 Pink Salmon one day, a few sea stars, a squid that let go when it surfaced, and I pulled a Ling Cod to the surface and it broke though line before my grandpa got the net down to it (we were on a big dock). In fact it broke a couple lines (or something equally large broke a couple more lines-icluding one of copper wiring-we didnt have steel leader unfortunetely). Darn thing ate a large triangular weight as well. Lots of fun on that truip. Even caught and ate a couple dogsharks-which made me sick.
Last summer I went river rafting on a weekend trip, including camping (and fishing but didnt catch nothin).
In a week or so I'm going on a 3 days backpacking trip. Can't wait.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#401539 - 08/16/08 05:29 PM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: Stormdragon]
duanew Offline
Member

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 326
Loc: MN
Have hunted and fished since I was a boy here in Minnesota. Returned last week from 10 days in South Africa. 20th Wedding anniversary trip-sightseeing and a little hunting.
If you are looking for a good guide/PH let me know and I will private message you with his website. The trip was unbelievable.
_________________________
Duane

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#401540 - 08/16/08 11:06 PM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: duanew]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Fishing sucks...fish suck. I tried fishing...thank god for Taco Bell or I would have died...

I don't get it. I had a fishing rod, i bated the hook with live worms....Nothing

The next time I bated it with marsh mellows because I heard is was a secret trick...an entire bag of marsh mellows waisted.

The only thing I've ever been able to catch is a small clam, and a couple of trees. And if your using your friends dad expensive lures...WOAH, watch out, cuz now you've gotta dive into the water and cut it free from the stupid vines...

I hate fishing...but even still I wish I knew how to do it. Just once I'd like to catch an actual fish.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

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#401541 - 08/16/08 11:09 PM Re: Outdoorsmen/women? [Re: TeK9]
TheCrab Offline
Scum
Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 467
Loc: QLD Australia
you were probably fishing in a contaminated lake or something you muppet lol

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