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#401270 - 07/06/08 04:20 AM Re: For the Matsumura Seito crowd [Re: shoshinkan]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
Chandler Sensei Hakutsuru Mei kata, from the Pinewood videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXEPSGkiRfc&feature=related
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#401271 - 07/07/08 01:04 PM Re: For the Matsumura Seito crowd [Re: shoshinkan]
Shonuff Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/03/04
Posts: 603
Loc: London, UK
These last two kata look distinctly like amalgams of different forms.

Do we know where these have all sprung from, which are old which are new etc?
_________________________
It's Shotokan not Shoto-can't!!!

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#401272 - 07/07/08 07:47 PM Re: For the Matsumura Seito crowd [Re: shoshinkan]
dandjurdjevic Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/10/08
Posts: 844
Loc: Australia
Quote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu5JXe08ghU

just stumbled across this, not sure again of it's relevance but an interesting kata for sure.




Of all the Hakutsuru kata (which seem an amalgam of Kume village and Gokenki variations with some silly moves added) this is the only one I would consider studying. I agree with Victor that the ni pai po clip has a lot of 'dead' movement. This hakutsuru seems highly functional - even the 'crane' stance (for a change)...
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#401273 - 07/07/08 07:54 PM Re: For the Matsumura Seito crowd [Re: dandjurdjevic]
dandjurdjevic Offline
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Registered: 05/10/08
Posts: 844
Loc: Australia
From what I've heard the hakutsuru of Kume village was researched by Hanshi Pat McCarthy.

The others, I don't know.
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#401274 - 07/08/08 12:15 AM Re: For the Matsumura Seito crowd [Re: dandjurdjevic]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Looks like a solid performance of a kata, but it sure has a whole lot more in it than just "crane."
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#401275 - 07/08/08 06:17 AM Re: For the Matsumura Seito crowd [Re: medulanet]
Shonuff Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/03/04
Posts: 603
Loc: London, UK
I see lots of Nijushiho, some chinto, kusanku, what looks like mock kungfu (eagle claw maybe) and some distinctly Goju ryu movements.

Despite this it is an interesting and appealing form, much more so than any of the other supposed crane forms I've seen. Though I think if you know any two of the ones I mentioned above there's not a lot to learn in this, but I could be way off base.
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#401276 - 07/12/08 01:13 PM Re: For the Matsumura Seito crowd [Re: Shonuff]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Jusr for the record:

Okinawa

Matayoshi performing Okaku
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmASeBvCq5M
Hakkucho Kata - Matayoshi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=encHYcCQgxc&feature=related
Matayoshi Shinpo performing Kingai Ryu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89_cUe-Sjkk

Kusano Sensei performing Hakucho Kata
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzVdNiZUxmc

Odo Seikichi Sensei, Hakutsuru Kata
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD78dP428ec

Okaku sho Kata Yabiku Takaya
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltYWnXECZY4&feature=related

Happoren or 8 linked steps Karate's version of MingHe Babulien
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV1jD7_0WRw

Tou'on-ryu inheritor, Kanzaki Shigekazu [who studied under Kyoda Juhatsu], performing their version of Go Kenki's Nepai kata
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkDFzJjlGiw
Chinsu Kata - Sakugawa Family
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5BKTfHue5g

Japan

Shito Ryu Kata Hakkaku Performed by: Teruo Hayashi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkeEB6DOLzs
Nipaipo Shito Ryu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8rAt5hKVDM
Toshio Morita senior student of Tadahiko Ohtsuka performing Happoren in Goju Kensha Hombu Tokyo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx3L9YoemP0&feature=related





United States

Hakutsuru No Kata
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOyhgwc5T7M
Hakutsuru of Kume Village
Patrick Donahue Shihan, of the Brattleboro School of Budo in VT performing the Kume Village version of Hakutsuru at his dojo in 2001
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu5JXe08ghU

Hakutsuru Mei - Charles Chandler
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXEPSGkiRfc
Chuck Chandler- 8th Dan- Ni Pai Po Kata
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP_RYLE9bwQ
Hakutsuru - Tony Sandoval
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUEqKCMjWzM
Ron Lindsey performs HakuCho Dai
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R63saub7Zg
crane kata called Papuren
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPZfbx1vIGM






Puerto Rico
Renshi Edgardo Martinez is part or Team M.I.K. (Martinez Isshinryu Karate) from Puerto Rico. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekY04LXqf7c
Uruguay
Kensei no Hakutsuru - J. E. Castro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NY24b6xPQOI&feature=related
Australia
Ron Goninan Crane Hakutsuru White Crane
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwSz961XkZk&feature=related
And the winner is - Ad for Japanese Sake, Hakutsuru (White Crane).

1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbBReLQZPrU&feature=related
2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7evFoWkKqE


Tiawan and china
Fujian Quanfa master, Guo Kongxi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw6GxQ84thw
Fujian Hequan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF7hh_Uiim0
Hequan's Ershiba [Nepai] "28-Steps"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF9HHry_xHM
Minghe Quan's Ershiba [Nepai] "28-Steps"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vlw9j3GzXBM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jZxKoET4Vg
Whooping Crane "Tiger Crane" SanChin/Sanzhan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLog9TMFfo8&feature=related
Old crane master
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04vzxQU78QE
Southern Lohan Babulien
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN6gU68W-W0&feature=related
Crane Fists
1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jq91AbX1aY&feature=related
2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyHqZ9RAIHI&feature=related


James Sumarac performing White Crane form Happoren for Taiwan Television
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARlxgPYUOaY

Tiger vs Crane Hung Gar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQUYxqUO1b4&feature=related
chiu chi ling performs the tiger crane hung gar set,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VQW55fdJxA&feature=related
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#401277 - 07/14/08 08:44 AM Re: For the Matsumura Seito crowd [Re: Victor Smith]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Now if you've taken the time to watch all of the crane kata, where do you find a common link? If all of them are Okinawan, were there Okinawan crane stylist hiding behind every bush and tree?

Gives one pause?
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#401278 - 07/14/08 03:28 PM Re: For the Matsumura Seito crowd [Re: Victor Smith]
Shonuff Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/03/04
Posts: 603
Loc: London, UK
Taking the "Okinawan" forms which are actually different from one another and putting them together would certainly make an interesting system to train in.
_________________________
It's Shotokan not Shoto-can't!!!

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#401279 - 07/14/08 04:35 PM Re: For the Matsumura Seito crowd [Re: shoshinkan]
duanew Offline
Member

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 326
Loc: MN
As a Matsumura Seito then Kenshin Kan then Matsumura Kenpo guy who's had the opportunity to train with Tony Sandoval and Chuck Chandler on a seminar basis only -this is my opinion. I have also had the priviledge to train with Ron Lindsey on a seminar basis.
I respect and admire all three men greatly for their martial arts ability. All three gave me the opportunity to understand things much better with their ability to explain it to me in English since so many times I have found myself try to understand an explanation in broken English and since I have no ability to speak Japanese or Hogen. I thank all three for their efforts in bringing that greater understanding to me.
As far as the Crane kata goes...it has been for sometime the Holy Grail that many have sought. I remember when Kise Sensei performed the Crane kata for my instructor back in the 80's on video. He had to promise not to reproduce it and only a few were even allowed to view it (he unlike others kept his word).
As time passed different trends have struck karate-Kyusho, then the Crane kata. With all kinds of people jumping on the bandwagon teaching this Crane kata and that Crane Kata. Knowing or thinking you know the kata is great. But if you don't understand it, if you don't know the bunkai then it's all just a pretty dance-regardless of the kata you are doing.
I don't know the kata, I don't know the bunkai other than that which was shown to me. After 30 + years I can perform 20+ kata. I can do 10 of them. I understand 3 of them -maybe-others might disagree. Each year is a struggle to retain what I know, deepen my understanding and to make the kata mine.
It is said that Soken Sensei said if you know the Naifanchi kata that is all the kata you need to know. I'm still working on it.
To those of you who choose to chase the Crane good luck, it's an elusive bird.
_________________________
Duane

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