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#401260 - 07/04/08 06:06 AM For the Matsumura Seito crowd
Victor Smith Offline
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Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
Sensei Chuck Chandler- 8th Dan- Ni Pai Po Kata
In this video Sensei Chandler is performing his Ni Pia Po Kata at the 2007 International Martial Arts Symposium in Columbia SC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP_RYLE9bwQ&feature=user
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#401261 - 07/04/08 10:47 AM Re: For the Matsumura Seito crowd [Re: Victor Smith]
shoshinkan Offline
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Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
It's interesting but im not sure how it's actually connected to the Seito Matsumura system, historically or indeed technically.

Chandler Sensei clearly knows his stuff, but I think his development (certainly over the last 15 years) has been more into the Hakutsuru 'group' of kata as opposed to Seito Matsumura from Hohan Soken. (which of course he does have a strong background in).

Nice find Victor.
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#401262 - 07/04/08 03:51 PM Re: For the Matsumura Seito crowd [Re: shoshinkan]
Victor Smith Offline
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Jim,

I'm sure you're right, but I tend to think of that crowd as being interchangeable, just an outsiders view.

The form is most definately in some crane lineage.

I can't do what he does, but see a lot of 'dead' movement that would be fun to exploit.

I've never understood movement without what I would call martial intent.

For example compare his execution with Dr. Yang Jwing Ming (YMAA White Crane and Yang Tai Chi Chaun).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0J6A7T3laI&feature=related
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#401263 - 07/04/08 04:28 PM Re: For the Matsumura Seito crowd [Re: Victor Smith]
shoshinkan Offline
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I think many of the Okinawan 'crane' forms were researched and developed by Yabiku Sensei some years back (hence their strong link to many Seito karateka),

a whole bunch of them were presented by him, Chandler Sensei and Lindsey Sensei in the early 90's by Pinewood productions.

nothing wrong with the kata IMO, good solid martial arts,

but im not convinced outside of the Soken Sensei Hakutsuru if any of them have much validity within the Seito Matsumura system, regards lineage or indeed technique executuion.

Of course thats a wild generalism, based on my own limited experience.

My own perosnal feeling is that Soken Sensei or Nabe Sensei developed the 'family' Hakutsuru based on their own interpretation of white crane, possibly from Gokenki, or indeed from Matsumura Sensei (in Nabe Sensei case).

But I don't train Hakutsuru yet, so until I get to it my research and experience is very limited.
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#401264 - 07/05/08 09:28 AM Re: For the Matsumura Seito crowd [Re: shoshinkan]
Shonuff Offline
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Registered: 11/03/04
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After watching Yang Jwing Ming, Mr Chandlers movements seem virtually uncoordinated, although I can see that he is a very strong and capable martial artist and I'm sure the same would be true for most people.

Victor I think I see what you mean by dead movement, in my humble opinion this is not a very well constructed form. It's applications seem

Karate based White Crane forms seem to me like a great way to add a mystical trump card to your style. One more excuse to say "I have a secret so I'm more special than you". Just my opinion.

And those stances are way to long to be practical
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#401265 - 07/05/08 12:30 PM Re: For the Matsumura Seito crowd [Re: Shonuff]
Quattro Offline
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Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 17
Quote:


Karate based White Crane forms seem to me like a great way to add a mystical trump card to your style. One more excuse to say "I have a secret so I'm more special than you". Just my opinion.





Quoted for the truth

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#401266 - 07/05/08 02:19 PM Re: For the Matsumura Seito crowd [Re: Quattro]
shoshinkan Offline
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Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
I agree that the white crane line has been used to sell systems,

I also believe that the white crane systems had alot to do with the development of all Okinawan Karate and therefore it has validity as a study aid for the historically minded karateka.

I don't think there is anything special about it, it's just an added dimension to the art which is mostly forgotten in modern karatedo with it's emphasis on sport and looking good.
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#401267 - 07/05/08 03:23 PM Re: For the Matsumura Seito crowd [Re: Victor Smith]
WuXing Offline
Member

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 481
Loc: Idaho, USA
Here's someone performing the ming he quan version of the same form

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vlw9j3GzXBM

and for reference, here is the shito ryu version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8rAt5hKVDM

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#401268 - 07/05/08 06:58 PM Re: For the Matsumura Seito crowd [Re: WuXing]
Shonuff Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/03/04
Posts: 603
Loc: London, UK
Notice how the Shito has a "crane" stance, while the Whooping crane version doesn't.
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#401269 - 07/06/08 04:19 AM Re: For the Matsumura Seito crowd [Re: Shonuff]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu5JXe08ghU

just stumbled across this, not sure again of it's relevance but an interesting kata for sure.
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