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#401070 - 07/19/08 01:25 PM Re: Small Rant... [Re: marmaduke]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
No, I don't shoot any one who has their priorities in the right order. But take care of yourself - you're a lot more valuable to your son alive than sick or...

In fact, maybe a snooze in car will do a lot more for both you & your son. More dads should have your kind of dedication.
_________________________
Ed Ichihara Smith - Shukokai

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#401071 - 07/21/08 01:26 AM Re: Small Rant... [Re: marmaduke]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
Good job on doing what you do but is sounds like your wife should pitch in to. I work two full time jobs, 80+ hours a week, and spend as much time with 4 kids and my wife helps outs. That fact that she spends most time sleeping with just one job is disturbing.

Plus, I can't understand wanting to spend as much time with him, but I think that shouldn't lead to overprotecting. Or l ike I like to call smothering. I have noticed and believe to much overproction does nothing for them when they go out on their own. Sorry but pop the t&ttie out of his mouth and let him be a man...
_________________________
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#401072 - 07/21/08 01:35 AM Re: Small Rant... [Re: marmaduke]
JAMJTX Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/01/02
Posts: 585
Loc: Fort Wayne, IN
you pretty much answered your own question when you said "the school is there to make money".
There is no money to be made in disciplining kids. They are there to be entertained and taken off of their parents hands for a little while.
You are operating under the false assumption that your son is a martial arts teacher. He is employed by a McDojo as a baby sitter.
The only other option would be for him to go to a martial arts school.

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#401073 - 07/21/08 12:26 PM Re: Small Rant... [Re: JAMJTX]
tkd_high_green Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 1031
Loc: Vermont
Having re read the initial post, I have a couple of comments to make.

First off, it appears that class sizes are relatively small, which does allow for more personalized attention. 6 to 8 students per class is tiny.

Secondly, a larger class of 15 is really not all that big either, but can be very overwhelming if you've never taught a class that size.

Based on the age and behavior of your son, it would appear that he is relatively inexperienced at teaching, and unfortunately part of learning how to teach is learning how to maintain discipline in a larger class and how to ignore the parents.

When I started teaching, I think the hardest part for my instructor was letting us make mistakes when we were teaching and not immediately jumping in and "saving us". The counter at our school was situated in such a way that I could keep watch of my senior instructor and I could tell how I was doing based on his body language. While it might appear to anyone else that he wasn't paying attention to the class, he was always fully aware of what was going on.

Your son should take this opportunity to talk to the senior instructor and find out his opinion on what he could have done better to maintain control of the class and chalk it up to a learning experience. And if your son feels any need to discuss the "joys" of learning to teach with anyone, tell him he is more than welcome to contact me.

I wish him the best of luck in the future.

Laura

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#401074 - 07/21/08 12:57 PM Re: Small Rant... [Re: tkd_high_green]
marmaduke Offline
Member

Registered: 10/26/06
Posts: 177
Loc: Ohio
Quote:

Having re read the initial post, I have a couple of comments to make.

First off, it appears that class sizes are relatively small, which does allow for more personalized attention. 6 to 8 students per class is tiny.

Secondly, a larger class of 15 is really not all that big either, but can be very overwhelming if you've never taught a class that size.

Based on the age and behavior of your son, it would appear that he is relatively inexperienced at teaching, and unfortunately part of learning how to teach is learning how to maintain discipline in a larger class and how to ignore the parents.

When I started teaching, I think the hardest part for my instructor was letting us make mistakes when we were teaching and not immediately jumping in and "saving us". The counter at our school was situated in such a way that I could keep watch of my senior instructor and I could tell how I was doing based on his body language. While it might appear to anyone else that he wasn't paying attention to the class, he was always fully aware of what was going on.

Your son should take this opportunity to talk to the senior instructor and find out his opinion on what he could have done better to maintain control of the class and chalk it up to a learning experience. And if your son feels any need to discuss the "joys" of learning to teach with anyone, tell him he is more than welcome to contact me.

I wish him the best of luck in the future.

Laura




My son has taught 15 or more in the past. Those students were willing to listen and learn. As mentioned, half of the students he had that day were from a different class. He is not their normal instructor. (Plus they missed their Ridlin dose)

Since that class, the instructor keeps his eye on the training method. After every class, he does have some comments for my son. (How to handle this or that child, teach this instead of this, etc.)

As you said, my son is learning to teach. Its one of his future requirements to learn to teach. If you don't mind being pestered, I'm pass on your comments to him.

Thanks.
_________________________
It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

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#401075 - 07/21/08 01:01 PM Re: Small Rant... [Re: JAMJTX]
everyone Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/02/07
Posts: 597
Loc: USA
Have to agree with JAMJST. What you have here is a McDojo Daycare.


Try to find a less commercial school.

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#401076 - 07/21/08 07:57 PM Re: Small Rant... [Re: everyone]
clmibb Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 1035
Loc: South Texas, US
marmaduke, my mom was a preschool teacher for 19 years. When she had a "problem student", she would have them hold her hand and follow her around the class room, completely ignoring him/her, as she continued throughout her normal routine. Most of the time after that, all she had to do is ask the child if they neede to hold her hand. The answer was always, "No ma'am". It works better on boys than it does girls (girls enjoy the individual attention too much and feel more like "teacher's helper" than someone who just got in trouble).

I've adopted the same discipline method for the boys in my class (there's only about 4 girls in class and are all very well behaved). All I have to do is ask if they have some strange urge to hold my hand or do they think they can settle down and quit disturbing the group. I have yet have a boy WANT to come up and hold my hand . It's just another discipline suggestion in case he's not comfortable giving push-ups or there's kids in class that actually ENJOY push-ups (like in my class).

The others on here are right, the head instructor should have been on the floor especially after seeing how big the class was.

Casey
_________________________
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."- Ronald Reagan


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#401077 - 07/22/08 09:54 PM Re: Small Rant... [Re: marmaduke]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Marmaduke:

Apologies for missing this one. Remind me how old is your son again???

<<Yesterday there were 15.

A perfectly normal class size, for an adult instructor. Students on the floor are the O-N-L-Y priority, the teacher made a foolish mistake.

<<Chaos was an understatement.

Chaos is what we do... the ability to handle it well is the mark of the professional instructor versus something else. The wandering, water, bathroom, hug routines are relatively easy to adjust. He absolutely must keep and hold their attention for no more than 5 minutes.

<<No one wanted to co-operate.

What does that mean?

<<one of the mothers decided to complain about my sons poor teaching.

Something in particular? He is a fairly young man if memory serves... she had the wrong complaint.

<<oversized due to parents showing up un-announced.



Sigh, the instructor needs to be taught how to respond better. Even if that is/was the case, you cannot, cannot put it that way! It makes it seem that parents were the problem... noooo it was his hideous lack of adult staffing was the only issue. His response was "over her head" because that is not HER concern. She brought little Timmy in one of the time slots that was "acceptable". Not her or your sons fault many did so.

<<All she did was complain.

What about ? There is a strong difference between attempting to impose order over a class and punishing a class. They are radically different creatures.

<<how do you control the uncontrollable?



With serious courage and massive insanity! Most times the kids bounce between mommy, the cooler, and whatever else the particular issues might be at that second, I propose they were not DOING enough. Or perhaps not enough geared specifically for their AGE!

To keep them from playing "mommy pinball" he might have explained he was teaching them how to be BIG kids... And that the BIG kids he teaches watch him ALL the time. SO they can SEE what he is showing them...

" Eyes on ME please... Jimmy..." "...Jimmy go give your mommy one really, really big hug and then come back until class is done, go ahead..."

You make 100% certain they understand they will be asked to WATCH the class if they are actually disruptive. But the descriptions sound like many, many of the classes I teach.
The class period itself must be geared for the age.

Waving to mommy is benign if once, repeatedly, he needs reminded in a friendly way mommy can't teach him, and needs to "...do what I am doing..." There are word games, behavior mod. 101 but overall it sounds like he was literally overrun.

Asking them in a group to DO specific things you essentially are playing "freeze tag" and coming to see if they are doing it great or super great. In a very young group, you have to make the repetition a game of some kind. A back and forth between your son and them. "...ok, everyone have a seat... who thinks they can show me a great LOW BLOCK..." and you go around the line/circle and pick volunteers out. Praise them.

Line drills become COPY the grown up...

You ask them simple questions and get them to raise their hands with the answer. More than 5 minutes doing rote will crush the age I suspect you are speaking of. It has to be sneaky, and ingenious to get them to do XYZ correctly.
All kinds of games he can "bastardize" to make them martial & appropriate. It is NOT about doing games, but about their learning. "... if everyone does their BEST... we will play XYZ game if we have TIME. If anybody is fooling, we won't play..."

There will be foolers and simply point out "...Johnny, you classmates will not be happy if YOUR fooling means they cannot play..."

All kinds of tricks.

The fact you mention he sent off the "senior kids" with WEAPONS to practice scares me in ways I cannot begin to verbalize. If there are weapons ANYWHERE, it must be 10,000% supervised by you or I (adults) no matter how rubber, how "practice" they might well be. Just too many things that can go wrong even with them. What happens if
Greg hits Kenny whether accidentily or on purpose, could your son disarm them harming neither? Could he make the room freeze on command? Is he aware of kids who are bad partners and likely result in bad things happening...

Teaching is almost never the physical, but how different groups, kids interact. ADD, all manner of different conditions have to be part of the lesson plan and how the lines, activities are formed.

Your description overall badly concerns me on numerous levels I'm afraid...

Merely my opinion, I could surely be mistaken,
Jeff


Edited by Ronin1966 (07/22/08 10:07 PM)

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#401078 - 07/22/08 10:17 PM Re: Small Rant... [Re: BigJim]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Bigjim:

This answer is EASY.

We do not undergo the same scrutiny and none of the supervision "government/state wise" that classroom teachers do. There is no background check on us. As such I'm not leaving my kid with you (generic) alone, and anybody who does is asking for avoidable trouble...

On that basis I understand why parents want to watch. IMHO should watch more often than not... if they become the distraction they are asked to watch from the hall.

But militant discipline is NOT a great answer. There are other approaches not based fundamentally on fear and punishment.

Jeff

(edited by tkd_high_green at Ronin1966's request)


Edited by tkd_high_green (07/23/08 09:16 AM)

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#401079 - 07/22/08 11:02 PM Re: Small Rant... [Re: Ronin1966]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
Point of information, did not intend you specifically (if there was any doubt) meant simply that any of us potentially could be a potential "wacko", molester, etc., etc.

In that manner, any of us SHOULD be watched by any parent who wishes to do so at any time they wish it.

Apologize for my potentially poor explaination previously...

Jeff

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