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#400371 - 06/25/08 02:53 PM Is it a privleage or right to get your cert??
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
Well, i have a question or someting to put out there for the masses but mainly instructors.

I have a food friend, that went through his phase A training and passed. Since his training he left the school he was teaching at, under good terms. And now he tried requesting his Phase A diploma and was told NO because he is not teaching.

I think that it total BS. To me he or anyone for that matter earned it. How does not teaching have anything to do with getting your diploma or not????

The politics, good old boy or whatever is total horse chit...
_________________________
90 percent of good abs is your nutrition

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#400372 - 06/25/08 05:05 PM Re: Is it a privleage or right to get your diploma?? [Re: JasonM]
Anonymous
Unregistered


OK, I'll bite,....What is a Phase A diploma?

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#400373 - 06/25/08 05:52 PM Re: Is it a privleage or right to get your diploma?? [Re: JasonM]
JMWcorwin Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/13/07
Posts: 731
Loc: SoCal, USA
Yeah,
I have no idea what diploma you're talking about as I'm not a Krav guy. But, if it's a certificate that lables him as an "instructor" they could have a valid argument for not giving it to him. Just because you can DO doesn't necessarily mean you can TEACH and pass it on properly.

So, if say he left on the note of something like, "screw you I'm going to go open my own school and do it the way I want to!" Then, no, he gets nothing along the lines of help from the school and teachers he has forsaken.

If you say it was on good terms that he left and then there's another possibility. (again remember always that I'm assuming this is some kind of instructor qualification) It takes a whole lot more knowledge of small details and applicatoin and theory to be an instructor than to be a non teaching MAist. We get our 'Instructor certificate' around 5 to as much as 10 years in FROM 1st DAN BLack Belt. And you would never pass those tests without years of learning HOW to teach.

Bottom line, I could see many reasons why someone would be denied just about anything from a school he abbandoned. If it's not that, then there's a simple fix... go teach for that school until you earn your cert. One piece of instruction I got years ago from one of our Masters was: "You always have exaclty 2 choices: Yes Sir! or No sir, I'm sorry I can't do that. I will be leaving now... and leave with a proper bow/salute etc. This way, you leave with respect for all parties concerned. But, you still have LEFT. YOU WALKED AWAY. You can expect courtesy and general respect from your former instructors/classmates. But you should never assume that they OWE it to you to help you start up a school accross the street that will directly compete with them. ( or anything along those lines )

C'mon people! This ain't piano lessons! And it's not whine tasting either, so eat your cheese, swallow the Whine, and walk away TALL.
Deep breaths. Ok. I'm better now. Sorry, that's just a touchy subject with me.

Maybe I'm just funny that way. Respect and honor those above you. Respect those training with you. And love those training under you. If you're friend can honestly say that he's done and is doing those things, then maybe I'm 100% off the mark here. If so, I apologize respectfully.


Edited by JMWcorwin (06/25/08 06:00 PM)
_________________________
There are no PERFECT techniques, only perfect execution for the situation at hand. ~Corwin

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#400374 - 06/26/08 12:19 AM Re: Is it a privleage or right to get your diploma?? [Re: JMWcorwin]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
Just a tad off the mark.

It is the instructor cert in Krav. And if they didn't feel he was an instructor or should teach then he never should have been teaching to begin with. Which he was doing and s very good at it. He was teaching in a guys school, and was qualified to do so. If he was qualified then, why not now when he left the school?

In Krav, if you receivd your cert and pass Phase A, you are qualified to teach, period. They don't even plan by their own rules. Well, at least qualified to teach up to a certain level. Because their are a few phases.
_________________________
90 percent of good abs is your nutrition

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#400375 - 06/26/08 07:23 AM Re: Is it a privleage or right to get your diploma?? [Re: JasonM]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
It's about money.

Everybody is always willing to take what you will offer...teaching for example. But did he pay them for certification while he was there? And now that he is down the road...who wants another 'certified' competitor?

I was trying to find some KM up here for awhile, and the whole 'franchising' aspect of it, and consequently limited availability, turned me off.

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#400376 - 06/26/08 10:00 AM Re: Is it a privleage or right to get your diploma?? [Re: harlan]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
That the thing he did pay for it, and it aint' cheap.

It is his situation and like you mentioned the reason I am going to go with IKMF or IKMA. I have already spoken with David Kahn and he is a great guy.
_________________________
90 percent of good abs is your nutrition

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#400377 - 06/26/08 09:24 PM Re: Is it a privleage or right to get your diploma?? [Re: JasonM]
Anonymous
Unregistered


"That the thing he did pay for it, and it aint' cheap."

Well, if he paid for it, he should be able to receive it (presuming he passed all qualifications, which you state he did) I would think, he owns it? so, why can't he take it? or have it placed in his possesion or, does their org. have stipulations about revocation? if not, then pay a lawyer. Let them settle it in court, or is the whole thing just too "wishy-washy" to even attempt to bring a legal action?

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#400378 - 06/27/08 01:12 AM Re: Is it a privleage or right to get your diploma??
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
Personally, I think it is the good ole boy system, like I mentioned.

One instructor, who is in good with the licenseing going at KMWW is preventing my friend from getting is license and they even stopped us from opening up a school. Some BS about the licensee gets right of refusal, or some crap. I don't believe it should be in the licensee's backyard, but this location was 50 miles away and the licensee claimed he is going to open up a school in the future. Total horse crap and I know he wont' open up down there. He doing it just to be an ass and try to lockdown the KM market in Northern Va.
_________________________
90 percent of good abs is your nutrition

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#400379 - 06/27/08 11:48 AM Re: Is it a privleage or right to get your diploma?? [Re: JasonM]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Have your friend get a "new" certificate made for him by someone (even himself) with a "new" style name, open the school (even if it's private). It's not as if there is some "All Mighty Council) who determines these things. It happens all the time (people creating "new" styles and opening schools).

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#400380 - 06/27/08 02:24 PM Re: Is it a privleage or right to get your diploma?? [Re: JasonM]
JMWcorwin Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/13/07
Posts: 731
Loc: SoCal, USA
There you go.

Why would you expect your current school to aid you in opening up competition for them. If you wanted to open a school UNDER your current school and work it out with their approval and cooperation, then fine. You said he left on good terms yet you're saying he (and you now) want to open your own school. Neither one of you are entitled to any help from the other school unless you do it with their approval and oversight. ( and probably some sort of payments going up to the mother school ) And, that is absolutely not leaving on good terms. "Bye, you taught me so much so now I'm going to go forth and compete for the same share of the market you were in long befor I ever stumbled in here and humbly requested you teach me. By the way, can I have that certificate to hang on my wall in the school? I'm not going to give you any kind of compensation for the use of your name to verify my legitimacy."

Suck it up. He left and is trying to claim HIMSELF as equal (or maybe even superior) to the people who trained him. And he hasn't even gone through any of these other "phases" that obviously have been gone through by you initial instructor. Highly disrespectfull at the very least.

So, since he doesn't have the advanced skill/certificates to claim what he wants to, you're left with one honourable option: Go and open your own school and base it on your knowledge and forget about claiming some piece of paper from an instructor you obviously think is of no further use to you. Besides, there are plenty of "associations" out their who will gladly sell you a high ranking through the mail. (but again, that's up to your own personal sense of honour, loyalty, and humility.)

Do the right thing. (or maybe that's your plan? You're going put in hard work to train as many people as you can and then encourage them to leave as soon as they feel some bit of proficiency and open up competing schools all around yours?)


Think on it.
_________________________
There are no PERFECT techniques, only perfect execution for the situation at hand. ~Corwin

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#400381 - 06/27/08 02:30 PM Re: Is it a privleage or right to get your diploma?? [Re: JMWcorwin]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Uhmmm...this is Krav Maga...right? Not like it's...karate...or some kind koryu that puts a lot of value on lineage and teacher approval? And isn't the point that he was in a system where it was acknowledged that he was paying for a certificate to teach in that association?

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#400382 - 06/27/08 02:45 PM Re: Is it a privleage or right to get your diploma?? [Re: harlan]
JMWcorwin Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/13/07
Posts: 731
Loc: SoCal, USA
I would totally agree with that from what my understanding of it is. To teach teach in that association . He's talking about opening a new school.

Oh, well. Good luck with it JasonM. I have made my opinion pretty clear on the topic. Ultimately the decision is your friends.
_________________________
There are no PERFECT techniques, only perfect execution for the situation at hand. ~Corwin

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#400383 - 06/27/08 04:35 PM Re: Is it a privleage or right to get your diploma?? [Re: JMWcorwin]
Dedicated1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 399
Loc: Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
I think the point is, if you paid for it and you completed it, you should be entitled to it. It would be nice to be able to hang it on your wall to show your accomplishments. If KMWW doesn't want to license you than fine. You should still get your Certificate though. If it makes you feel better KMWW won't give my old instructor his phase A or his Phase B unless he signs a contract for $500.00 plus a Month.
_________________________
If your in a "Fair Fight", your tactics suck.

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#400384 - 06/28/08 12:47 PM Re: Is it a privleage or right to get your diploma?? [Re: Dedicated1]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
Jm there is a lot more too it and I think your opinion is off cuz of that..

We were wanting to open our own school WITH the backing of KMWW. We even looked for a place far away from any other Krav schools. But because this instructors ego is bigger than his school he claimed the area we were looking at. Which is BS...

Harlan is rightk it is KM and I should not expect anything less. At least it would be honorable with a TMA.

oh and JM, this ain't an isolated incident as you should be able to tell from Dedicated's post.

We have done everything right to try and request a school under the KMWW umbrella, but one instrucgtor or that instructors opinion seems to dictate the whole organization. It is rather sad...
_________________________
90 percent of good abs is your nutrition

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#400385 - 07/13/08 06:31 PM Re: Is it a privleage or right to get your diploma?? [Re: JasonM]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
Any certification worth anything would probably come from a higher authority that a local affiliate school. If it is some first tier instructor level, I would just start over at another school and show that you know your stuff. Your abilities and knowledge should speak volumes better that a piece of paper.
_________________________
www.brazilianjiujitsunaples.com

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#400386 - 07/14/08 12:07 AM Re: Is it a privleage or right to get your diploma?? [Re: Fletch1]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
I agree. However, it appears the "good ole boy" system exist in KMWW. The local instructor is buddies with the licensing guy at KMWW.

In any event, my friend is changing over to IKMA and we are going to do our thing under that umbrella. :-) We are tired of dealing with KMWW and their BS.
_________________________
90 percent of good abs is your nutrition

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#400387 - 07/17/08 03:22 PM Re: Is it a privleage or right to get your diploma?? [Re: JasonM]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
I see. That can be a problem. Good luck to your friend.
_________________________
www.brazilianjiujitsunaples.com

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