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#400216 - 06/23/08 03:50 PM Grip strength?
JoshuaMonjin Offline
Member

Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 427
Loc: Fallon, Nevada
I was curious how important people consider grip strength to be as a part of Japanese swordsmanship? My sensei is personally big into it and I know you need a good grip to do tameshigiri so your sword doesn't come out of your hand. Any thoughts?
_________________________
Jikishin kore dojo nari

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#400217 - 06/23/08 04:05 PM Re: Grip strength? [Re: JoshuaMonjin]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Grip strength comes with time and practice. I don't think you need to worry too much about building it outside of regular class. I've seen some folks who've been practicing for more than 30 years who almost looked like Popeye because their forearms were so large from swinging steel for so long. Grip strength lies in the finger extensor muscles, which are in the forearms.

Now all that said, don't think I mean that it is important to hold the sword tightly. It's a lot more complicated than that. These muscles build up not because you are using your fingers to grip tightly, but rather because you are using your fingers to manipulate the blade during a swing. As with many of the details of JSAs, it's difficult to explain in writing.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#400218 - 06/23/08 06:42 PM Re: Grip strength? [Re: Charles Mahan]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1274
Loc: upstate New York
My sensei always said it was like holding a bird: tight enough it does not get away, loose enough not to crush it. The grip is relaxed until the part of the cut when contact would be made with your target, real or imagined. The grip relaxes again after you have passed through your target.

At least that is the way I practice it. And, yes, my forearms show it.

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#400219 - 06/23/08 09:44 PM Re: Grip strength? [Re: JoshuaMonjin]
socho Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/03/07
Posts: 11
Loc: Virginia
Quote:

... I know you need a good grip to do tameshigiri so your sword doesn't come out of your hand. ...


You don't need a 'good grip', you need a correct grip. It is not about strength, although over time, you will build impressive grip strength (and really cool popeye forearms, as Charles said). If your grip for tameshigiri is different than for kata, something is wrong.

Dave

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#400220 - 06/25/08 03:52 PM Re: Grip strength? [Re: socho]
JoshuaMonjin Offline
Member

Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 427
Loc: Fallon, Nevada
I definitely agree that the correct grip is most important. So with proper form the proper hand tension just happens naturally?
_________________________
Jikishin kore dojo nari

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#400221 - 06/25/08 04:39 PM Re: Grip strength? [Re: JoshuaMonjin]
socho Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/03/07
Posts: 11
Loc: Virginia
Quote:

... So with proper form the proper hand tension just happens naturally?


nothing about sword happens naturally, until you do it a few thousand times . Yes, proper grip, proper tenouchi, shibori at the right part of the stroke, moving your body with the cut, lots going on. Am not sure tension is the right word, but can't think of a better one. It isn't really a grip, as much as just holding the sword. The important part is that almost every part of your hand is in contact with the tsuka, in very specific places, and you need to be able to feel that. You should know the orientation of the blade without having to think about it, just by feel. The (slight) tension is a steady, constant thing. There should be no major adjustment of grip during or after a stroke, or in transition. Once the blade is moving, the grip should be fairly constant until chiburi and noto. Like any major movement in any martial art, it has to be relaxed, but controlled. YMMV, your style may put the emphasis somewhere else.

Dave
_________________________
"the artist formerly known as Sergeant Major"

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#400222 - 06/25/08 06:09 PM Re: Grip strength? [Re: socho]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Quote:

Am not sure tension is the right word, but can't think of a better one.




Tenouchi. Sometimes the words just don't translate well easily.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#400223 - 06/26/08 12:59 PM Re: Grip strength? [Re: JoshuaMonjin]
CarlLong Offline
Stranger

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 1
Quote:

I was curious how important people consider grip strength to be as a part of Japanese swordsmanship? My sensei is personally big into it and I know you need a good grip to do tameshigiri so your sword doesn't come out of your hand. Any thoughts?




Hello JoshuaMonjin,

Could you please tell us who your teacher is?

Thanks,

C Long



Edited by CarlLong (06/26/08 01:00 PM)

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#400224 - 06/26/08 09:55 PM Re: Grip strength? [Re: CarlLong]
RonTaniguchiJr Offline
Stranger

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 1
Long Sensei,
Joshua-san is a student of mine here at Nevada Budo. I believe his curiosity about grip strength is not only about holding the sword. Personally, I train my grip strength quite often. I have found that my technique has improved because of this training. The way I see it, the better my physical fitness, the better my technique (in many aspects of budo) will be able to become.
Respectfully,
Ron Taniguchi Jr.

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