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#399554 - 06/15/08 05:00 AM Re: Are full /high contact MAs detrimental to heal [Re: oldman]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2572
I was just playing too Oldman! Shoe's on the other foot now eh????

Certainly you can get injured any time anywhere, but perhaps there are things we do that increase the chances, one way or another.

Very good stuff from people on the thread, keep it coming!
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#399555 - 06/18/08 03:44 PM Re: Are full /high contact MAs detrimental to heal [Re: dandjurdjevic]
Shouji Offline
Member

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 272
Loc: VA
One life. One youth. Live it to the max.
_________________________
The only thing a belt is good for is to hold your pants up

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#399556 - 06/18/08 04:34 PM Re: Are full /high contact MAs detrimental to heal [Re: Shouji]
Zach_Zinn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
Quote:

One life. One youth. Live it to the max.




Yeah and then when you're old you can hurt to the max lol.

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#399557 - 06/18/08 05:00 PM Re: Are full /high contact MAs detrimental to heal [Re: Zach_Zinn]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
I have no quams about that I'm going to hurt when I'm older; I'm almost 40 and I already have pains. What I want to make sure is if I can "deal" with it. That will be the true testament.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#399558 - 06/18/08 05:23 PM Re: Are full /high contact MAs detrimental to health? [Re: Prizewriter]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Prizewriter:

<< Are full contact, or high contact, martial arts detrimental to your health?

(A "hat" for prizewriter on this one).

Jeff

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#399559 - 06/18/08 07:21 PM Re: Are full /high contact MAs detrimental to heal [Re: Dereck]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
Quote:

I have no quams about that I'm going to hurt when I'm older; I'm almost 40 and I already have pains. What I want to make sure is if I can "deal" with it. That will be the true testament.




OLDER!!?
I was 47 before I started running. Finished four marathons before I was downsized and discovered Martial Arts.

Kids!

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#399560 - 06/18/08 10:35 PM Re: Are full /high contact MAs detrimental to heal [Re: iaibear]
tkd_high_green Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 1031
Loc: Vermont
I voted yes.

If you are trying to hurt the other person, then yes, they are probably going to get hurt. Doesn't take too many boots to the head to start causing brain damage, much less any of the other potential injuries from full contact sparring. I get hurt enough in light/medium contact sparring.

Is it good to condition yourself to be able to take an impact? sure, but I don't think you could/should do it on a regular basis, and it's something that I think you should build up to.

Should white belts be going full contact? Absolutely not. They don't have a clue how to defend themselves, and it would be negligent on the part of the instructor to put their students in that position.

Laura

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#399561 - 06/19/08 12:10 AM Re: Are full /high contact MAs detrimental to heal [Re: tkd_high_green]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Should white belts be going full contact? Absolutely not. They don't have a clue how to defend themselves, and it would be negligent on the part of the instructor to put their students in that position.






Laura,

Some of our whitebelts are whitebelts for almost two years and are more than capable of sparring hard. Rank certainly does not tell when you are ready to spar.

Tell that to the greenbelt that put a hole in through my mouth a few years ago,lol.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#399562 - 06/19/08 01:34 AM Re: Are full /high contact MAs detrimental to heal [Re: BrianS]
dandjurdjevic Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/10/08
Posts: 844
Loc: Australia
I already have a hole where my mouth is. Did he make an extra hole?

Jokes aside, we don't let our white belts free-spar until they are one grade before green. Instead they do restricted forms of sparring (ie. not completely free). The restrictions are initally strong, and gradually reduce. By the time they are green belts they have probably been free sparring for 4 to 6 months. The total time they spent not free sparring (at least completely) could be anything form 9 months to one year - hardly a blip in their martial careers.

But why do we do this? Well for one thing, we teach them how to spar. This is a process. We don't just "let them do whatever" (faux boxing etc.). I don't believe students can "spar" using karate techniques when they don't know any. All they'll be doing is whatever they currently do - and getting bad habits "to boot" (pardon the pun). Again, if you look at our sparring video, you'll see we teach a specific method of fighting - actually using karate techniques including bunkai. We don't encourage or seek to develop some form of generic "free (for all) fighting".

As far as "hard" or contact sparring goes, I'm tired of being hit by green and brown belts accidentally. Even they haven't got the control to spar with heavier contact "safely" - ie. without poking out an eye etc. - never mind white belts.

One of my students went to live in Kalgoorlie (2 hours flight inland from Perth) and joined a dojo where they let people free spar (with contact) from the moment they walked in the door as rank beginners. My student witnessed a guy being kicked hard in the groin. The guy ended up losing both testes. There was no malice - just a total lack of control in an exuberant "contest". Apparently this was the second time in 2 years that the same thing had happened (different person doing the kicking too)! My student quit in horror - and rightly so. As a former civil litigation lawyer I can only cringe at their prospects of being sued (if they haven't been already).

Training should be a controlled learning environment. I believe in staged learning of free sparring as part of this controlled environment - not letting white belts "do their own thing" with potential risk to themselves and others, while gaining bad habits such as cringing, turning away etc. especially when panicking.

That's been the approach I've used for almost 3 decades and I'm sticking with it because I find it works. I appreciate that others don't do the same thing, but each to his own. If any of you have found a way to ensure safe, yet productive, junior white belt sparring, then more power to you.
_________________________
http://www.dandjurdjevic.com/

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#399563 - 06/19/08 07:48 AM Re: Are full /high contact MAs detrimental to heal [Re: dandjurdjevic]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Laura -

Beginners should definitley not just be thrown into free-sparring with no training. They should be given specific, limited drills with appropriate (but increasing) resisitance. Start them with hands-only, no footwork, just defending upper body strikes. Then add footwork, then kicks, etc. Start them defending takedowns only, no strikes from either person. Then let the attacker punch before the takedown, then after, etc. Then let the defender use strikes, and so on. Make sure they switch attacker/defender roles every time.

Give them limited drills in every situation, then start to chain them together. That way they can get the resistance of sparring, without the sensory overload. But the concept of resistance needs to be there from day one.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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