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#399286 - 06/12/08 01:16 AM Blackbelts in MMA
BrianS Offline
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Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Who are the former longtime TMA practitioners that compete in MMA? (Blackbelts or higher)
There are countless that have blackbelts in BJJ out there, too many to list,but what about other arts?

How are they doing?

Georges St.Pierre
Lyoto Machida
Stephan Bonnar


Chuck Liddel practiced Koei-Kan Karate-Do, but I'm not sure for how long. Does anyone here know?

I'm not looking to argue anything in this thread. I'm just curious.
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#399287 - 06/12/08 02:28 AM Re: Blackbelts in MMA [Re: BrianS]
medulanet Offline
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Registered: 09/03/03
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Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Does Hawaiian Kempo count as a TMA? Liddell is 4th Dan in that style and it is an art which he practices to this day.
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#399288 - 06/12/08 02:44 AM Re: Blackbelts in MMA [Re: medulanet]
BrianS Offline
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Quote:

Liddell started training in Koei-Kan karate at the tender age of 12. In fact, a tattoo on his scalp actually reads, Koei-Kan. But a tattoo on his shoulder seems to be what gives the masses the most trouble. You see, that tattoo does not say Kenpo.

Rather, it says Kempo. Here’s the difference, according to longtime trainer and friend John Hackleman (taken from the Knuckle Pit).

"In 1985, when I moved from Hawaii to California,” says Hackleman, “I switched it (the name of his martial arts style) from Kaju Kenbo to Hawaiian Kempo. I added some things to it, took away some things and started calling it Hawaiian Kempo. I took out the katas and the forms and I threw in more natural fighting techniques and conditioning. Now that’s my style. Like if you see Chuck (Liddell) with the tattoo on his arm, that’s the logo for my school."




http://www.submittomma.com/articles/chuck_liddell.html

Can you reference that information?



Edited by BrianS (06/12/08 02:58 AM)
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#399289 - 06/12/08 12:21 PM Re: Blackbelts in MMA [Re: BrianS]
everyone Offline
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Registered: 01/02/07
Posts: 597
Loc: USA
On the local circut you will see TMA fighting MMA. Turning pro isn't about winning lots of fights. It's about having a good promoter and winning fights. There are certian gyms that pro MMA fighters come from. Not because they are the best gyms with the best fighters but because they have the best promoters. I have seen local TMA fighters defect to these gyms in hopes of making the transition to professional. These gyms are the typical MMA schools with backing from a Gracie (or some other big name).

TMA fighters are out there but there is a "good old boys" club for the big ticket.

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#399290 - 06/12/08 03:16 PM Re: Blackbelts in MMA [Re: everyone]
BrianS Offline
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Registered: 11/04/05
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Quote:

On the local circut you will see TMA fighting MMA. Turning pro isn't about winning lots of fights. It's about having a good promoter and winning fights. There are certian gyms that pro MMA fighters come from. Not because they are the best gyms with the best fighters but because they have the best promoters. I have seen local TMA fighters defect to these gyms in hopes of making the transition to professional. These gyms are the typical MMA schools with backing from a Gracie (or some other big name).

TMA fighters are out there but there is a "good old boys" club for the big ticket.




Any information on Chuck's formal training?

Any known names?
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#399291 - 06/12/08 04:32 PM Re: Blackbelts in MMA [Re: BrianS]
bo-ken Offline
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Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 1228
Loc: beaver falls, PA, beaver
There are a lot of Japanese and Korean fighters that have black belts in Judo. I heard Sokoju (sp?) is a Nidan in Judo.

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#399292 - 06/12/08 05:04 PM Re: Blackbelts in MMA [Re: bo-ken]
BrianS Offline
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Registered: 11/04/05
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Guys. If you make claims based on what you think or have heard could you atleast back them up with a link?
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#399293 - 06/12/08 06:13 PM Re: Blackbelts in MMA [Re: BrianS]
bo-ken Offline
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Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 1228
Loc: beaver falls, PA, beaver
Ok Brian I know there was a video on youtube with Sokoudjou in a gi and he was saying he was a Nidan but now I can't find it. He was throwing a guy who was interviewing him.

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#399294 - 06/12/08 10:26 PM Re: Blackbelts in MMA [Re: bo-ken]
Seiken Offline
Member

Registered: 03/29/08
Posts: 131
Loc: USA
Bas Rutten (obvious one)

5th Degree in Kyokushin and 2nd Degree in Taekwondo, and according to this article even though he competed in Thai boxing his striking skills are credited to his Karate background.

http://www.completemartialarts.com/whoswho/ufc/basrutten.htm

EDIT: I seen a video of lidell training Sanchin like kata and getting boards broke over his head while wearing no top with bottom karate type pants and a black belt. Im sorry I dont have a link, it was on TV but im still searching.


Edited by Seiken (06/12/08 10:28 PM)

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#399295 - 06/12/08 11:19 PM Re: Blackbelts in MMA [Re: Seiken]
medulanet Offline
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#399296 - 06/13/08 12:35 AM Re: Blackbelts in MMA [Re: BrianS]
medulanet Offline
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Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
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I thought it was pretty much common knowledge that Sokky was a judo man.
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#399297 - 06/13/08 03:25 AM Re: Blackbelts in MMA [Re: medulanet]
IExcalibui2 Offline
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Registered: 05/20/06
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Anderson Silva is a 1st dan in BJJ I think
The Gracies (duh)
Yoshida Hidehiko in judo
Vitor Belfort in BJJ under Carlson Gracie
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#399298 - 06/13/08 03:57 PM Re: Blackbelts in MMA [Re: IExcalibui2]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Karo Parysian- primarily a Judoka
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#399299 - 06/13/08 04:00 PM Re: Blackbelts in MMA [Re: IExcalibui2]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

Anderson Silva is a 1st dan in BJJ I think
The Gracies (duh)
Yoshida Hidehiko in judo
Vitor Belfort in BJJ under Carlson Gracie




I don't think that Brian was referring to BJJ. We know that many MMA guys are black belts in BJJ.
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#399300 - 06/13/08 04:37 PM Re: Blackbelts in MMA [Re: medulanet]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
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Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Here is one article. http://www.topgunmma.com/viewArticle.php?articleID=10368




yes, as i said in my initial post. Many fighters are BJJers.

Marcel,

Thanks for the link! Where does it say Chuck was 4th dan in anything?
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#399301 - 06/14/08 06:03 AM Re: Blackbelts in MMA [Re: BrianS]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
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Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Chuck says in his book (I've read it a couple times) that he eventually tested for his black belt in Koei-Kan Karate under a Mr. Jack Sabat after only a couple years or (I forget exactly how long). That style uses traditional Okinawan katas and techniques. And a little more extensive grappling methods from ju jutsu or judo it looks like (I saw a video about it recently). So he was at least a shodan. I think it was pretty soon after that he began with Hack.
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#399302 - 06/14/08 09:23 AM Re: Blackbelts in MMA [Re: medulanet]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Does Hawaiian Kempo count as a TMA? Liddell is 4th Dan in that style and it is an art which he practices to this day.




I'm not saying he isn't, I just haven't read anywhere where it says he is 4th dan in anything. You think he might mention that in his biography.

I don't see how he still practices any TMA art anymore. He has to train for mma.

References?
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#399303 - 06/15/08 03:33 AM Re: Blackbelts in MMA [Re: BrianS]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
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Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Like I said, he mentions in his biography that he was a black belt in Koei-Kan. That is a traditional form of Karate.
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#399304 - 06/15/08 01:44 PM Re: Blackbelts in MMA [Re: Stormdragon]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Storm,

I know this already. I was asking medulanet where he got his information that Chuck is a 4th dan and still practices karate.
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#399305 - 06/15/08 02:21 PM Re: Blackbelts in MMA [Re: BrianS]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
I don't remember where I first heard about Chuck being 4th Dan, but here is an announcement about when he received his purple in BJJ and it also mentions his 4th Dan.

http://fightsport.com/fightsport/news/2003_07_13_fightsport_archive.html

And regarding him still practicing, Hack is still his trainer and trains him for his fights to this day and Hack's style is Hawaiian Kempo to this day.
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#399306 - 06/15/08 02:39 PM Re: Blackbelts in MMA [Re: medulanet]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

And regarding him still practicing, Hack is still his trainer and trains him for his fights to this day and Hack's style is Hawaiian Kempo to this day.




Yeah, ok.
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The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#399307 - 06/18/08 01:23 AM Re: Blackbelts in MMA [Re: BrianS]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Gotcha Brian.
Uh Medulanet is mostly right, Hack still does train him and still trains people under Hawaiin Kempo even if it is extremely modified and includes a lot of other stuff. I heard somewhere that he still teaches the self defense "techniques" standard to kenpo. Chuck sometimes trains at his on gym and in Vegas but Hack his his main trainer.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#399308 - 06/18/08 11:44 AM Re: Blackbelts in MMA [Re: medulanet]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

I don't remember where I first heard about Chuck being 4th Dan, but here is an announcement about when he received his purple in BJJ and it also mentions his 4th Dan.

http://fightsport.com/fightsport/news/2003_07_13_fightsport_archive.html

And regarding him still practicing, Hack is still his trainer and trains him for his fights to this day and Hack's style is Hawaiian Kempo to this day.




I didn't see where it mentioned that?
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#399309 - 06/18/08 01:11 PM Re: Blackbelts in MMA [Re: BrianS]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Quote:

Quote:

I don't remember where I first heard about Chuck being 4th Dan, but here is an announcement about when he received his purple in BJJ and it also mentions his 4th Dan.

http://fightsport.com/fightsport/news/2003_07_13_fightsport_archive.html

And regarding him still practicing, Hack is still his trainer and trains him for his fights to this day and Hack's style is Hawaiian Kempo to this day.




I didn't see where it mentioned that?




Just scroll down to the middle of the page and there is a news report regarding Liddell's rank in BJJ and Hawaiian Kempo.
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#399310 - 06/18/08 01:13 PM Re: Blackbelts in MMA [Re: medulanet]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Gracias.

Quote:

Chuck Liddell, who is is a 4th degree blackbelt in Hawaiian Kempo Karate, was just presented last night in Las Vegas with a purple belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu by John Lewis. Liddell's trainer, John Hackelman, was also on hand in Las Vegas to congratulate Liddell on his belt promotion.



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#399311 - 06/18/08 09:56 PM Re: Blackbelts in MMA [Re: BrianS]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Ed "9mm" Ratcliff (WEC)

http://www.wec.tv/index.cfm?fa=fighter.detail&pid=622

BB in karate and TKD.
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#399312 - 07/21/08 09:01 AM Re: Blackbelts in MMA [Re: MattJ]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Hey, I just found out that one of my favorite MMA fighters, Frank Mir, is a Kenpo black belt:

http://frankmir.com/?q=node/3

"Frank Mir was born and raised in Las Vegas, Nevada. He started studying the Martial Arts at a young age at his fathers Karate Club. You could say he was born into the martial arts as both his mother and father are martial artists. Frank obtained his Black Belt in Kenpo Karate as a teenager. He also excelled in wrestling and won the Nevada State High School Wrestling Championships in the heavy weight division. After graduating from High School he started studying Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and is now a Black Belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. He is also an accomplished Muay Thai Kickboxer."
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