FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 31 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
mohdnabeel, sunny, swordy, jerrybarry24, SenseiGregT
22915 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Ed_Morris 4
AndyLA 3
futsaowingchun 2
Zombie Zero 2
Matakiant 2
September
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30
New Topics
STX Kickboxing Seminar
by Marcus Charles
09/09/14 06:57 PM
Biu Tzu- 1st section applications
by futsaowingchun
09/05/14 10:56 PM
2014 World Championships Chelyabinsk: The Gallery
by ergees
09/01/14 03:51 AM
Biu Tzu- Snake hand strike
by futsaowingchun
08/27/14 09:02 PM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
mindfullness meditation
by
01/06/09 11:27 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by
05/13/07 08:02 AM
Eugue Ryu
by
03/27/07 12:06 AM
Recent Posts
attacked from behind
by AndyLA
09/19/14 09:05 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Matakiant
09/18/14 07:11 AM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
09/18/14 06:07 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by Zombie Zero
09/16/14 04:43 PM
Eugue Ryu
by kolslaw
09/12/14 03:35 PM
Biu Tzu- 1st section applications
by futsaowingchun
09/05/14 10:56 PM
2014 World Championships Chelyabinsk: The Gallery
by ergees
09/01/14 03:51 AM
mindfullness meditation
by log1call
08/31/14 09:43 PM
Biu Tzu- Snake hand strike
by futsaowingchun
08/27/14 09:02 PM
Forum Stats
22915 Members
36 Forums
35575 Topics
432495 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#399002 - 06/08/08 02:36 PM Is your "JKD" good enough?
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
With the rapid rise in popularity, and subsequently number of schools, do you feel like the "JKD" or other taining that you do is on par with current MMA training available? D
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

Top
#399003 - 06/08/08 07:48 PM Re: Is your "JKD" good enough? [Re: Chen Zen]
jkdwarrior Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 341
Loc: belfast, Antrim, Ireland
Honestly no. My limited experience with MMA style training exposed some missing elements of my game. Now however, I've started working on them.

We fight the same way we train, so training should be intense and should cover everything you would like to be able to do if you got into a fight.
_________________________
Sticks n stones'll break my bones, but if I land the first one, you're in trouble!

Top
#399004 - 06/08/08 07:55 PM Re: Is your "JKD" good enough? [Re: jkdwarrior]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
At it's highest, JKD should be identical to MMA. But as we know, this isn't always the case. Its my opinion that ANY art should (or could) be trained in an MMA context. Once its understood that MMA just means, combining your stand-up fighting with takedowns and ground work, it should be obvious that ANY art could include that approach.

Top
#399005 - 06/09/08 10:48 AM Re: Is your "JKD" good enough? [Re: JKogas]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Agreed, Jkogas.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#399006 - 06/09/08 12:08 PM Re: Is your "JKD" good enough? [Re: JKogas]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
What about schools that train different areas seperately? Monday its boxing, tuesday jujitsu, etc,.? What about these schools because I see many that take this approach and I think that perhaps this is a flawed approach due to the lack of transitional work from one range to the next and back again.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

Top
#399007 - 06/09/08 01:15 PM Re: Is your "JKD" good enough? [Re: Chen Zen]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
That is exactly what my old JKD school did. I also think that approach is flawed, if you never integrate them.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#399008 - 06/09/08 04:19 PM Re: Is your "JKD" good enough? [Re: MattJ]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Cory,

Matt is right on. Without the integration, you end up with "cross training" which isn't as effective at the end of the day.

Its better than nothing, but without integration (such as allowing strikes during jiu-jitsu), your game can develop in ways that would be less effective for the integrative purpose (a real fight).

If you train a lot of jiu-jitsu without the strikes, your guard game will suck when the heat is on. That's just an example.


-John

Top
#399009 - 06/10/08 10:18 AM Re: Is your "JKD" good enough? [Re: JKogas]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Are there other approaches than simply progressive sparring? Drills perhaps?
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

Top
#399010 - 06/10/08 12:09 PM Re: Is your "JKD" good enough? [Re: Chen Zen]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Drills are used to sharpen techniques and make smooth transition but nothing really adds to realism that sparring does.

What I've founded is one needs to spar outside of your gym, we can get caught in doing things a certain way or staying away from certain techniques. Some feel kicking or jabbing lead to easy takedowns and this is true if started off without a combination or takedowns are key to fighting.

But spar a club that stress using combinations and countering takedowns or that takedown it can be a long day of abuse/learning.

Exploring the possibilities outside your kwoon/dojo/gym should be considered. Because even if you THINK you are practicing a formless method, you do get stuck in its safe to do it this way. IMHO.
_________________________
DBAckerson

Top
#399011 - 06/10/08 02:44 PM Re: Is your "JKD" good enough? [Re: Neko456]
IExcalibui2 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 961
Loc: New York City
I think my grappling game has a lot of room for improvement but I agree with the MMA context and integration.

I'm mainly a striker so its important to learn to how transition from a more upright striking position to dropping your weight so that you're ready for some kind of grappling action.

And I agree with the sparring sessions. If not full out, at least spar with some deal of integration, so that you get a feel of using other tools available to you.
_________________________
"you're going to work till you wish you were dead and then keep going.." -Sgt Slaughter

Top
#399012 - 06/11/08 11:42 AM Re: Is your "JKD" good enough? [Re: IExcalibui2]
Semper_Fi Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/11/08
Posts: 18
Loc: Arlington, VA
For the most part I think I am balanced enough to adapt to what's thrown at me.

Top
#399013 - 06/11/08 12:51 PM Re: Is your "JKD" good enough? [Re: Semper_Fi]
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
I would like that to throw out that drills are as important as sparring.Possibly more so.IMO.
If you spar its random as to what will come at you.So if your bad at something,like being on the bottom grappling with striking allowed also,you might have to wait ages for that situation to come up in a spar.If it does at all..Then it might not happen for long.So you have not learnt what to do or got used to it.
Plus your only as good now as the opponent at that time.

But you can create a drill where your in that situation and do it over and over.And you can go at more intense realistic levels after getting used to it.
Half the story is not panicking and being able to be calm and say ''I can cope here ,iv been here loads of times at very high intensitys and not got hurt''.Hopefully the training partners put you through worse than what you would get for real,lol.
_________________________
I point my saxaphone at the rare Booted Gorilla.

Top
#399014 - 06/11/08 01:18 PM Re: Is your "JKD" good enough? [Re: matxtx]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I agree drills help you smooth out your techniques and counters to an attacks. But I wouldn't say they are any more important as anyother training exercise such as shadow boxing. The combination of drills and shadow boxing(t.e.) equals a good workout but lack the spontaneous reaction that sparring offers. I've noticed that with some drill the partner knows the same and can counter your counter this can only really be discovered in spontaneous schuffles sometimes they smother your attempt before it happens.

I agree if you are caught in sparring partner mode you only going to be as good as your partner. But if you are intent on defeating your opponent or really testing yourself you will impose your will on your opponent dispite his skill level. Only in fighting or sparring does tenacity, aggression and the will to do your best can the same technique be nearly unstoppable. Even though both know the drill, one is able to force or impose his will on the other, in sparing/fighting.

This can't be expressed with the even trade off of even resistance drill training. IMHO.
_________________________
DBAckerson

Top
#399015 - 06/12/08 12:59 PM Re: Is your "JKD" good enough? [Re: Neko456]
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
I see what your saying.
I guess it depends on what the word 'drill' means to a person.
Im talking about high intensity drills where a situation is set and each has an objective.Anything can happen within that situation.
Not warm up drills or low level intensity compliant drills.

An example ,coming out of Judo training,would be two people in a clinch ,one tells the other he will be trying a particular sweep.So all he does is try to sweep the other guy.If he does it,they get up and go again.It can be done full on and at high intensitys over and over.
The key is that its harder to do something to someone when they know what your trying to do.THAT is skill.And the defender gets to learn defence against a guy very intensly doing it.So he intensly tries to stop him.

A wrestling drill example would be one is takedowns,one is takedown defence.Over and other.High intensity.

An MMA drill could be one has to takedown ,the other has to stay on his feet and can hand strike only .Both know what but not when or how so its free but adressing a particular weakness.
Or one is takedowns and has to submit the other,while One can only tie up and just stay up.They are both fighting intensily to get their goal.
It could be anything as long as its a situation that happens in a fight often enough to be worth knowing.

Personaly, I find these drills just as valuable as sparring,sometimes more so. I know top class MMA,Judoka,wrestlers,do these kind of things.
_________________________
I point my saxaphone at the rare Booted Gorilla.

Top
#399016 - 06/13/08 03:14 PM Re: Is your "JKD" good enough? [Re: Chen Zen]
Seiken Offline
Member

Registered: 03/29/08
Posts: 131
Loc: USA
Quote:

With the rapid rise in popularity, and subsequently number of schools, do you feel like the "JKD" or other taining that you do is on par with current MMA training available? D




Yes and no. Personally, injuries keep me from doing what I REALLY want to do. So I sort of increase the focus on what I CAN do. And what I can do is only similar to MMA training philosophy. Physical fitness wise, I dont do ANY MMA type drills like sprawls & pummeling, and any sparring I do now is light and specialized.

Pretty much all inclusive shadow fighting and high percentage techniques are what I take away from MMA or JKD the most.

While my training skills have diminished over the past few years, I feel like I used to train hard enough to be content with where I am currently, indeed light sparring can only garner so much, but observing what does and doesnt work for others helps greatly in deciding what really works and what I should work on. So in some respect light sparring does fullfill my full resistance/contact needs. But my needs are greatly different than most people. I honestly train with pure self preservation in mind, and to me that means death and health.

The more I think about it though, what I do is MMA, its just my MMA. Even when doing Kata or Poomse, I always have in mind the ever changing possibilities. And I think Jkogas is spot on once again, at its highest JKD should be MMA. I will boldly take this a step further and say any MA should be MMA at its highest.

Top
#399017 - 06/16/08 09:58 AM Re: Is your "JKD" good enough? [Re: Seiken]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I agree that at the highest level JKD is MMA. But let me explain its Mixed Martial art not the UFC/K1 version its merging every range to be your range or knowing your strengths and forcing your opponent to fight your fight.

In the UFC groin kicks are legal last I heard but rarely applied because of the protective cup and sportsmanship (U don't kick/grab mines and I won't kick/grab yours) but eye strikes and groin grabs/strikes should be a part of JKD curriculum. I know others disagree with the effectiveness and lack of accuracy of these methods but I look at it like a jump knee kind of risky but if it lands its Katie bar the door/No survivors/Lights out. So I believe its well worth training, as I've stated I'll trade a eye jab for a jab to the forehead anyday.

I also agree it should be training your way not look like the UFC, on the real you don't want to go in exchanging blows just to keep the rating ups, you want them to find your fight, if you have to fight.


Edited by Neko456 (06/16/08 09:59 AM)
_________________________
DBAckerson

Top
#399018 - 06/16/08 03:43 PM Re: Is your "JKD" good enough? [Re: Neko456]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Very Good Neko. Your JKD should be as effective if not more effective than MMA today. MOST, and I emphasize MOST, MMA schools train within the construct of competition rules, such as Pride or UFC, when JKD training should include al of this but also go beyond, to train realistically, for survival not just contracts.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

Top
#399019 - 06/17/08 12:53 PM Re: Is your "JKD" good enough? [Re: Chen Zen]
BruceLee94 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/26/08
Posts: 24
Loc: Lincoln, UK
We do eye jabs, and kicks to the groin, if we are being grappled and the only way to get out is to squeeze their balls, then so be it.
_________________________
Be like Water

Top
#399020 - 09/28/08 02:26 AM hrm [Re: BruceLee94]
v_sho_v Offline
Stranger

Registered: 09/27/08
Posts: 3
I don't think it's fair to compare Jeet Kune DO to MMA. MMA seems to me to be very structured in it's phases of combat and from what i've seen all the fighters (with the exception of a few very skilled ones) use basically the same martial arts techniques. Jeet Kune Do as i've come to understand it was basically taking the four areas of combat (punching, kicking, trapping, and grappling) and perfecting them based off of your own unique ability's and expression. Furthermore it seems as if alot of people today are starting to compare every martial art to MMA as if it was a standard to use in judging. I honestly think that anyone who does this should stop trying to disprove an arts effectiveness compared to MMA and just train for MMA. Try to get on that ultimate fighter show while your at it i'll cheer for you.

Top
#399021 - 09/28/08 10:51 AM Re: hrm [Re: v_sho_v]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

I don't think it's fair to compare Jeet Kune DO to MMA. MMA seems to me to be very structured in it's phases of combat





Is JKD not also very structured in itís phases?


Quote:

Öand from what i've seen all the fighters (with the exception of a few very skilled ones) use basically the same martial arts techniques.





But think about what those techniques are? Kicking, punching, clinching/trapping and grappling. Isnít that what JKD is all about? Isnít kicking and punching just kicking and punching? Isnít that generic to the human being?

Iíd argue that one large reason you donít see a great variety of other techniques, is because they donít work in that environment. They donít work reliably when the pressure is on.


Quote:


Jeet Kune Do as i've come to understand it was basically taking the four areas of combat (punching, kicking, trapping, and grappling) and perfecting them based off of your own unique ability's and expression.




But how is that different than anyone involved in MMA?


Quote:

Furthermore it seems as if alot of people today are starting to compare every martial art to MMA as if it was a standard to use in judging. I honestly think that anyone who does this should stop trying to disprove an arts effectiveness compared to MMA and just train for MMA. Try to get on that ultimate fighter show while your at it i'll cheer for you.




Well, I think such comparisons are going to be made, as MMA seems to be the current measuring stick. Though I do think itís often unfair and inaccurate in some respects. However, MMA has done more for martial arts than anything in recent memory. If nothing else, people arenít as apt to believe in the ďmovie theatricsĒ of martial arts as they used to. Thatís a good thing. For a long time, people thought Steven Segal could really fightÖ Iím kidding (not really).

Top
#399022 - 09/28/08 12:30 PM true [Re: JKogas]
v_sho_v Offline
Stranger

Registered: 09/27/08
Posts: 3
Your right, it's just hard for me to look at MMA and JKD as similar. It's just my opinion really. Then again Bruce Lee did say unless different human beings have more arms and legs then others then we all have the same way of fighting. Personally my JKD sucks . I've got not stamina, no real muscular endurance, and i have no technique because i haven't studied any martial arts. To compare it to one of the classics of zen literature "In search of the missing ox" I'm "Finding the foot prints".

Top
#399023 - 09/28/08 09:37 PM Re: true [Re: v_sho_v]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

Your right, it's just hard for me to look at MMA and JKD as similar. It's just my opinion really.





Well, I can certainly understand where you're coming from. Trust me. But don't look at MMA as the sport that it is for a moment. Look at the training method that it represents. It' just sparring. But isn't it the most realistic sort of sparring that you can do short of street fighting? Isn't sparring important to the JKD student? If so, wouldn't we want to spar in the most realistic way possible? That would be mma, IMO.

Honestly, all you have to do is add weapons to the mix and what you have is nothing short of JKD. In fact, Larry Hartsell had mentioned that modern mma is exactly where Lee would have been headed with his training...not necessarily to compete, but as a training methodology.

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  Cord, JKogas, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Stun Guns
Variety of stun gun devices for your protection

Buy Pepper Spray
Worry about your family when you’re not around? Visit us today to protect everything you value.

Koryu.com
Accurate information on the ancient martial traditions of the Japanese samurai

C2 Taser
Protect yourself and loved ones from CRIME with the latest C2 Taser citizen model. Very effective.

 

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga