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#398508 - 06/05/08 08:21 AM martial sport
skinters Offline
Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 239
Loc: swansea,wales
Although I have no personal interest in martial art as a sport and respect those who do i canít help but feel martial art in general as been turned into a process of acquiring belts and certificates. Also the way the young people are brought into it in the way its all about the act of winners and losers with a trophy at the end for those who do win and maybe a feeling of failure for those who donít.
Martial sport seeks material affirmation of their worth as a martial artist which might include bigger muscles acquiring as many trophyís as possible wearing the most elaborate clothing and breaking the most boards.
This tends to in my eyes build a false sense of worth and bring a overestimation of the martial artists abilities.experience in street fighting shows the barbarity of real fighting and wipes out this illusion .

I could go on let me know what you think yourself on this .


Cheer all

Jase.
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if only we could strike with the eyes - from the thought to the fist how much time is lost ?

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#398509 - 06/05/08 11:04 AM Re: martial sport [Re: skinters]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
I disagree completely with the idea that sport is associated purely with acquiring belts, certificates and trophies. Sure, these things can be a great incentive and can often be used as a good predicter of skill; but sport is so much more than just winning.

I simply cannot understand why martial artists think what they do is so much better than what every other sportsman, or even hobbyist, does. The dedication that Kobe Bryant, or Christiano Ronaldo or Roger Federer show to their sports is just as great, if not greater, than any martial arts master. I knew a Basketball player who was so dedicated to his sport that he even practiced on Christmas Day.

In short, don't blame sport. Sport is a fantastic way of developing skill, instilling discipline and improving oneself. These things that you claim are the consequences of sport influencing MA, are in fact simply bad instruction and greedy consumerism.

Quote:

This tends to in my eyes build a false sense of worth and bring a overestimation of the martial artists abilities.experience in street fighting shows the barbarity of real fighting and wipes out this illusion .




Depends what the rules of the martial sport are. I have no doubt that many of today's MMAists have a much better chance of surviving an attack than most MAists training for self defense.

Indeed in my experience, some of the people who attack martial sport as not being useful in self defense, are simply those who lose when doing it. If you can't throw me in a judo match, and you can't KO me in a boxing match, what makes you think that "on the street," things will be so much different? Sometimes the delusion is not with the sportsmen.

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#398510 - 06/05/08 11:11 AM Re: martial sport [Re: Supremor]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Well said, Freddie.
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#398511 - 06/05/08 01:49 PM Re: martial sport [Re: skinters]
everyone Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/02/07
Posts: 597
Loc: USA
We all have our own reasons for being involved with the martial arts. But I think it is safe to say that we all do it because we enjoy it.

I don't know if all the distractions like belts and trophies take away from the ultimate goal of being a capable street fighter (if that really is the ultimate goal). As long as the person is having fun, it's no worse then playing tennis. As far as a false sense of security goes, we all have that; Until something happens to wake us up from this dillusion.

In MA, there is such a wide range of pursuits and no set heirarchy of importance.

I think part of the appeal of belts, trophies, board breaking etc.. is that there is a measurable result. If you only train for self defense, how do you set goals for your training? Setting and attaining goals will improve performance.

Anyway, some random thoughts on the subject.

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#398512 - 06/05/08 09:24 PM Re: martial sport [Re: everyone]
TKD-Skippi Offline
Member

Registered: 11/20/04
Posts: 268
Loc: Scotland, Selkirk

I Find grades and belts in a structured curriculum a great way to learn. If someone is able to smash a pine board with there bear hand without hurting themselves imagine what they could do to a face. someone who is a master of traditional MA and has never fought in a street brawl would get just as big a shock.
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Do not be overcome by evil , but overcome evil with good -Romans 13:21

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#398513 - 06/06/08 12:35 PM Re: martial sport [Re: TKD-Skippi]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Sport has positives and negatives. If all you are training for is the sport side and realize this then good for you. If you only do sport and think you are getting the whole picture then it sucks for you as you will be missing lots. However sport is an excellent way of using your skills and testing them against other resisting people. Take grappling for instance, how else do you see if techniques work other then to roll with an opponent; and the best opponents are not the ones you train with all of the time as you get a sort of "feel" for those people and they are not out to injury, submit or beat you.

As for belts, the same things; good and bad. But that has been discussed in great lengths already and won't go there.
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#398514 - 06/06/08 12:52 PM Re: martial sport [Re: TKD-Skippi]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
People don't 'smash' pine boards, they break them on the grain. It doesn't take any ma skill to do it either. Anyone can break pine boards with a simple understanding of physics.

just sayin'.....
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The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#398515 - 06/06/08 05:26 PM Re: martial sport [Re: skinters]
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
If you neglect the sport world then as an martial artist or athlete you will get left behind.Way behind IMO.

Mechanical, physical, and biochemical workings of the human body is what internal martial arts is.The people at the front of this field are researching it and apply it to different areas of sports to raise the game for an athlete.Trying to get that millisecond off the hundred metres for example.
How to train to or use the body to get the best as an all round martial artist against a skilled opponent trying to put you out?
The MMA sports experimenters and researchers are at the front of the field.And other sports that use similar attributes can be an influence.

There is so much development in one hundred years or even fifty,twenty,ten years that to me its crazy to try to do things the same as years ago still.
There are things that some dont even know they dont know about because they neglect the sports side and its positives IMO.
We can go further down into the cells and molecules of the human body than ever before.Deeper into the brain and how timing works.etc etc.All sorts.
Being influenced but still keeping a TMA elememt would even be better than neglecting the progressions made..IMO

I can see your point if you talking spirituality and progressing as a human but anyone can be an idiot so itts not down to a style of martial arts.Personaly I get that from other areas of life anyway and dont need martial arts for that.Although a plus side is it can help development.
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#398516 - 06/06/08 07:18 PM Re: martial sport [Re: matxtx]
skinters Offline
Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 239
Loc: swansea,wales
after reading these posts,im trying to understand why i feel
this way about it and i suspect im in the minority haha.

i can see aswell maybe a slight bias in as such if you practice your martial art as a sport,in its defence your going to be very pro martial sport,in the same way i have my own reservations about it.i also have complete respect for those who follow they art through sport and can understand it.

i do look at martial art as purely an extension of my life, in as such id never turn my life into a sport,of wich training in the martial art is so much a part of.

jase.
_________________________
if only we could strike with the eyes - from the thought to the fist how much time is lost ?

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#398517 - 06/06/08 08:52 PM Re: martial sport [Re: BrianS]
jeff_andle Offline
Member

Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 241
Loc: Falmouth, Maine USA
Quote:

People don't 'smash' pine boards, they break them on the grain. It doesn't take any ma skill to do it either. Anyone can break pine boards with a simple understanding of physics.

just sayin'.....




Brian, I can derive the equations for a three-bank, four-ball pool shot but my odds are better blindfolded! It takes some kind of skill, MA or other to hit the board (of a challenging thickness) with snap and precision.
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