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#398227 - 06/02/08 05:58 PM Blood oaths
bcihak Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 298
Loc: Illinois
I have a question. Would you train with an instructor who took a blood oath of the older Ryu, and then went against it. I am not looking for angry replies or accusations. I just would like to know what some people out there think on the subject and get their honest and open opinions. If possible maybe state your background and country of origin. Its not necassary, I'm just curious about the possible cultural differences as well. Thanks.

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#398228 - 06/02/08 06:09 PM Re: Blood oaths [Re: bcihak]
everyone Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/02/07
Posts: 597
Loc: USA
What do you mean by "blood oath"?

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#398229 - 06/02/08 06:15 PM Re: Blood oaths [Re: everyone]
bcihak Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 298
Loc: Illinois
Hello, What I mean is, for example, some of the older Japanese Ryu require you to take an oath, signed in the old days in your own blood, to follow their rules. Some still require this while others still require you to take an oath to follow their rules. If someone does this, and then decides to break the rules, for example, teach without permission, even if they are qualified to teach, would you train with them?

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#398230 - 06/02/08 06:24 PM Re: Blood oaths [Re: bcihak]
everyone Offline
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Registered: 01/02/07
Posts: 597
Loc: USA
If they signed their name in blood for any reason, I don't think I would train with them. There may be some mental problems to consider.

If you are asking about their integrity, they did tell you about the "blood oath", so they are at least honest. Unless of course the whole "blood oath" thing is a lie (my money is on the whole thing being a fictious story to try to impress people)

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#398231 - 06/02/08 07:41 PM Re: Blood oaths [Re: bcihak]
pgsmith Offline
Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 275
Loc: Texas
There are very few koryu that still require keppan (You do not sign your name in blood, that's strictly for movies). I've heard of several people that have been hamoned from their organization (thrown out and their records expunged) for various reasons. A couple of them have gone on to be respected in their own right. Others have gone on to obscurity. It all depends upon the person and their reasoning really. I know of none that have broken keppan.

Personally, I would be a little leary of anyone that says they've taken a "blood oath". To put it that way seems extremely "movie ninja-ish" to me. It sounds more like a bid for attention than honest discussion. Of course, you haven't said who you're talking about so we have no real way to judge do we.
_________________________
Paul

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#398232 - 06/03/08 12:25 AM Re: Blood oaths [Re: pgsmith]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
I do know one individual who has taken Keppan actually. He's quite sane. Well unless you count his tendency to train in a number of different martial arts and insist on doing them all pretty darn well.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#398233 - 06/03/08 06:52 AM Re: Blood oaths [Re: Charles Mahan]
General_Neo Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/07
Posts: 70
anyone who breaks such a bond in my opinion is not worthy to be called master..

take care,
Neo
_________________________
Im not in this world to live up to your expectations and youre not in this world to live up to mine

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#398234 - 06/03/08 08:53 AM Re: Blood oaths [Re: General_Neo]
fatguy Offline
Member

Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 146
Quote:


I do know one individual who has taken Keppan actually. He's quite sane. Well unless you count his tendency to train in a number of different martial arts and insist on doing them all pretty darn well.





I thought in Keppan you can only train in that art?
_________________________
Saya no uchi de katsu

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#398235 - 06/03/08 11:31 AM Re: Blood oaths [Re: fatguy]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
fatguy

Maybe, maybe not, a keppan is often just a formal oath that you will follow the rules/tenets/etc of a given school.

Given the number of masters in JSA history that trained in more than one system before picking a "main" style, either the meaning keppan has changed over the years--or few people looked at it from that postion....or that the arts they practiced didn't use it in that manner.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#398236 - 06/03/08 03:50 PM Re: Blood oaths [Re: cxt]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
My understanding of keppan is basically just a form of an oath. What you are swearing to can vary. In some arts, you promise not to study anything else, thus keeping your studies pure. In others, you promise not to reveal the secrets of the ryu-ha to outsiders. The individual in question falls into the second group as I recall.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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