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#397853 - 05/30/08 05:53 PM Re: On Freedom [Re: LifesFist]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

JKogas, complete awareness is a part of a state of wuwei (nondoing) or Buddhist mind. Is it not?





It is Buddhist. I'm a practicing Buddhist, but by no means any master.


Quote:


Is it not a component for one to be free? Maybe, using Your terms, freedom is doing with awareness, living with awareness?

Point about choosing how to responce to lifes various situations sounds good to me too.





IMO, freedom is a state of mind. Consider the story of Victor Frankl who discovered more natural freedom than was present within his own captors. They may have had more liberty, but he had more freedom. He had freedom because he had complete awareness, which in turn gave him the ability to choose his reaction to his circumstance.

Also IMO, awareness and freedom doesn't mean passivity. You are free to do whatever you choose, bearing in mind that you pay the ultimate consequences for your actions.

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#397854 - 05/30/08 06:01 PM Re: On Freedom [Re: JKogas]
LifesFist Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 127
Loc: Above Is Heaven, Down Is Earth
JKogas, Thank You for Your answer. I need to research more, so Your statements about freedom are very interesting.

By the way, I am writing my major from V.E.Frankl. It is cool that You know him too.
_________________________
Fellow Of Life

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#397855 - 05/30/08 06:03 PM Re: On Freedom [Re: LifesFist]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

Can You tell me how it should look like, to be able to choose situations in one's life?
At the moment I think that only god can do such things. He is free to create whatever he wants. Take "god" as an idea only, or example.




Well as a clarification, I said you can chose how you feel about a situation, not the situation itself.

I believe we have very little say in the situations we find ourselves in, at least on a grand scale. I mean I can chose to drive to McDonalds for lunch or stay home and make myself a sandwich, but in the scheme of things that is a false choice, because so much of what put me here is out of my control. I was not consulted when I was born a male in Wisconsin.

But I do believe someone made those choices for me, as a part of my emotional education, be it God, or my spirt guides what have you, someone or something has put me where I am, my job is to figure out what I am supposed to be doing and learning, and take advantage of the situation given me to accomplish those lessons.
_________________________
Undefeated in all of Asia!

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#397856 - 05/30/08 09:52 PM Re: On Freedom [Re: LifesFist]
jkdwarrior Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 341
Loc: belfast, Antrim, Ireland
Sorry for not replying sooner.

Lifesfist, here's another way to explain my point. Young children have to do more or less everything conciously. Taking first steps, tying laces etc. etc. The reason being that they haven't learned to do it. After they have learned, the action becomes unconcious and therefore performed without thinking. As we get older, we gradually build up unconcious behaviour and eventually most of our lives are unconcious. We get milk from the fridge, but we've done it so many times that the body and mind automatically knows what to do. All these acts done unconciously are all done in a state of trance. A hypnotist knows and takes advantage of this and through meditation anyone can become aware of it. A hypnotist will tell you to look into their eyes because they give you a sort of staring eye contact that says, "I'm the boss and you will do as I say". The person will immediately go into their "do what the dominant person says" trance that we've all learned, and will obey. They become hypnotised because they BELIEVE they are being hypnotised.

Once you become aware of these trances, its actually quite saddening to see how so many people are in them. But you can also learn how to bring people out and temporarily awaken them.

You say you need to research further. I believe consistent meditation is a good step. It's very difficult at first, but once you get over the initial hurdle of concentration, then you're flying. Most people never pass this first stage and give up, just realise that you can contentrate perfectly without trying to do so, kind of SOFT concentration. Natural and easy.

As for the question of the car. I would of course move out of the way. In the long run, getting knocked down may hold no meaning, but lets not be foolish. If the meaning of freedom is to live and to observe, then lets ensure we can do so for as long as possible.

Having fewer trances will also mean that I am more likely to be aware at this point and may notice and react faster.

In case you're wondering, it also works for fighting. Many of the dominant champions today are at the top not because of having greater physical skill, but because they are more aware. Look at their eyes and you'll see. BJ Penn, Anderson Silva, Mohammad Ali are perfect examples. Or just try thinking of blocking a kick when someone is throwing a punching combination at you. Awareness will increase your skill at more of less everything.
_________________________
Sticks n stones'll break my bones, but if I land the first one, you're in trouble!

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#397857 - 05/31/08 02:33 AM Re: On Freedom [Re: jkdwarrior]
LifesFist Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 127
Loc: Above Is Heaven, Down Is Earth
Interesting
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Fellow Of Life

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#397858 - 05/31/08 11:36 PM Re: On Freedom [Re: jkdwarrior]
LifesFist Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 127
Loc: Above Is Heaven, Down Is Earth
JKD Warrior, I guess this time, like any time You are talking from position of science. But let's rely on simple human experience. I wouldn't say that everybody is in trance. It would be too good for them...

If such thing would happen, You would see lot's of zombies everywhere. What's wrong if I take milk without thinking how to take it from the fridge, as You would say unconciously?

People suffer, You cannot say that they are completely in trance.

Awareness. I agree, if You are faster,more aware, then You may force Your oponent to respond to You choice.
_________________________
Fellow Of Life

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#397859 - 05/31/08 11:37 PM Re: On Freedom [Re: LifesFist]
LifesFist Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 127
Loc: Above Is Heaven, Down Is Earth
If You are one with nature, You can use it as way to defeat You opponent.
_________________________
Fellow Of Life

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#397860 - 05/31/08 11:47 PM Re: On Freedom [Re: LifesFist]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

If You are one with nature, You can use it as way to defeat You opponent.





Unless of course, he is ALSO one with nature. In that case, you better know something.


-John

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#397861 - 06/01/08 01:11 AM Re: On Freedom [Re: JKogas]
LifesFist Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 127
Loc: Above Is Heaven, Down Is Earth
If He is one with a nature, we won't fight, why,because he is in harmony with everything. If You are like water, You are not a block of river of life.


Edited by LifesFist (06/01/08 01:12 AM)
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#397862 - 06/01/08 08:52 PM Re: On Freedom [Re: LifesFist]
jkdwarrior Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 341
Loc: belfast, Antrim, Ireland
Quote:

If He is one with a nature, we won't fight, why,because he is in harmony with everything. If You are like water, You are not a block of river of life.




Excellent point!

The thing is I DO see people in trances, as can the majority of experienced meditators. I'm not trying to imply either that I am fully awakened. I have learned however, to spot when I am in a trance. This is the only reason why I can see it in others, and you can do the same. If someone learns to become aware when they are dreaming, they will automatically snap out of it. Make this a habit and you'll never want to go back.

Remember, the past is gone forever and the future is imaginary. Logic therefore dictates the we should become more aware of the present moment because it is the only thing that exists for real.

I know I'm regurgitating the words of others here, but hey, they're good words.
_________________________
Sticks n stones'll break my bones, but if I land the first one, you're in trouble!

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