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#397360 - 06/05/08 03:58 PM Re: Lyoto Machida uses karate in mma? [Re: BrianS]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Quote:

Quote:

People have to me it is not useful for fighting in MMA at all. That is a very specific statement so what combative situation can it specifically be used for?

I was told that this should be in another so I assumed they were referring to this one. So, Brian, care to respond to my question?




I don't care to,but I guess I will anyway.

What happened to you putting up or shutting up?
oh, the irony....




Brian, do you even understand what that means? It does not mean that I will grant every request by every keyboard warrior on this site. It means I will back up what I say. I have explained what I do in detail. If there are people who are unable to understand what I post they can come and visit me. Where have I posted anything that warrants proof of what I do with video? The ironic thing is that you believe I will run out and do things because of B.S. requests.

Quote:

Quote:

What type of fighting, other than self defense, is kata training good for if any?




The types of fights where there are no rules or boundaries.




So exactly what rules makes such training ineffective?
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#397361 - 06/05/08 04:04 PM medulanet doesn't put up and he won't shut up [Re: medulanet]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
I'm not playing footsie with you anymore. If you or jude feel the need to question my training methods , just start a new thread doing so.

"How does Brian train thread" fo sheeze!!

If you really want to know you will have to stop by and see me, homeskillet.


Edited by BrianS (06/05/08 04:05 PM)
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#397362 - 06/05/08 04:17 PM Re: MMA and Kata Training [Re: BrianS]
medulanet Offline
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Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Brian, calm down, I'm just asking about how you see kata and its uses. This really is a touchy subject for you isn't it? If you don't know the answers to my questions its okay.
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#397363 - 06/05/08 04:30 PM Re: medulanet , shut up [Re: medulanet]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
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Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
If thinking that makes you sleep easier, I can live with it. What you think of my karate is very important to me,lol.

I just don't see the relevence of me answerinq your every question.
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#397364 - 06/05/08 04:36 PM Re: Kata and fighting [Re: BrianS]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
You are right Brian. How you feel kata is specifically related to fighting has no relevance to this discussion.
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#397365 - 06/05/08 04:45 PM medulanet is worried about Brian [Re: medulanet]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
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Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

You are right Brian. How you feel kata is specifically related to fighting has no relevance to this discussion.




No, your particular questions directed at me have no relevance. You are relentless dude.

I have stated that the mere 'doing' of kata does not help mma style fighting.

I have also said that Machida's use of kata and karate contributed to his success. Mostly his success is due to his crosstraining and mma training.

I'm sure you believe that all he needed is kata because it contains everything, fighting off your back, triangles, sprawls, RNC's etc...right?
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The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#397366 - 06/05/08 04:47 PM Re: medulanet is worried about Brian's sanity [Re: BrianS]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Well I guess I will never get a concise answer about this subject from you. Oh well. I didn't really expect anything less.
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Dulaney Dojo

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#397367 - 06/05/08 05:07 PM Re: medulanet is worried about Brian's sanity [Re: medulanet]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
You didn't answer my questions!!
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#397368 - 06/05/08 07:44 PM Re: medulanet is worried about Brian's sanity [Re: BrianS]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Quote:

I'm sure you believe that all he needed is kata because it contains everything, fighting off your back, triangles, sprawls, RNC's etc...right?




No, kata has fighting in any position, but if down you work to get up. There are chokes and takedown defense similar to sprawling. It doesn't contain a lot of the guard work you'll find in say BJJ. If there is anything like a guard there is open guard or half guard. But these are like stances and only transitory positions. The key is to regain your feet.

Okay, I answered yours now answer my question.
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#397369 - 06/05/08 08:08 PM Re: Lyoto Machida uses karate in mma? [Re: creative]
dandjurdjevic Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/10/08
Posts: 844
Loc: Australia
Quote:

What the comments I have made have been very specific towards katas use for MMA fighters/MMA type tournaments.




Fair enough. I postulated that kata could be useful. You disagree.

Quote:

Secondly, I do not feel that you are necessarily swimming against the current with your views on kata especially with in the martial arts world in general. I think kata practice is as strong as ever if not more so with the work of people such as Patick McCarthy, Ian Abernethy(sp), Rick Clarke and others. To an extent i feel kata training has become 'cool' again.




Among traditional martial artists kata have always been cool. But among the general populace, karate and TMA are reviled as being "outdated" and impractical.

There are plenty of TMA who follow Patrick McCarthy and others, but the youth zeitgeist, influenced by MMA, is overwhelmingly negative (by contrast, in the 70s everyone was 'kung-fu fighting').

Quote:

I though, have not before heard such support for kata AS A TOOL FOR MMA FIGHTING. It is this specific element which I am debating.




I'm happy to hear it. That's what I addressed my comments to. "A tool", not "the tool" etc.

Quote:

Again, I've not said kata is outdated, but kata performance as a means of improving fitness for fighting. I am attempting to be specific in my arguments. My basis of argument have been presented throughout this thread.




Yet you haven't persuaded me that kata is necessarily incompatible with Machida's MMA preparation (as a part, not the sole basis, etc.).


Quote:

I acknowledge that performing kata can be physically demanding. But it does not simulate an MMA fight. There are far too many dissimilarities. I do not feel that performing any kata (at any intensity) and shuttle runs are comparable.




I don't think anything is. All you can do is mix and match your training. My point was that in solo training it is hard to get that anaerobic stress. Shuttle runs, hard kata etc. are all useful as part of solo training. In my experience the stress of the anaerobic environment, low stances etc. of kata is among the "closest" I've experienced in fighting (along with shuttle runs, continuous heavy bag work, etc). It's still miles off, but I'm talking solo training.

Quote:

I feel that many karateka try to make kata out to be a complete, all encompassing training tool, which it is not. There is no other form of training that does everything, kata is no different.




I have never sought to advance this argument on this thread.

I'm a big fan of kata as a means of "packaging knowledge" for traditional martial arts, but that is very different from being an "all encompassing training tool".

Otherwise thankyou for clarifying your position. I feel I might have misread your posts too and accept that you were speaking (passionately) about kata for MMA prep. only.
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