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#397260 - 06/01/08 01:18 PM Re: Lyoto Machida uses karate in mma? [Re: jude33]
creative Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 401
Loc: UK
Jude are you suggesting that kata would be a useful tool for boxers? How much of boxing is contained in kata?
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#397261 - 06/01/08 02:31 PM Re: Lyoto Machida uses karate in mma? [Re: jude33]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Quote:


Can I make a suggestion. Make a list of the techniques that you personaly use and drill as regards to strikes and defence against strikes in MMA. After that is completed then it could be seen where karate/ kata techique are used and indeed could be used in MMA striking because lets be honest the majority of MMA striking is basic .
Even with gloves.




Just because similar techniques are employed does not mean that kata are an effective tool for mma training. There are simply more effective ways to develop mma skills, like for example, pad work, partner drills and sparring.

The question is not whether or not you could use kata to train for mma, but whether you could do something more effective. You could just swim 8 hours a day, saying that it's good for endurance, which is true; however most people will tell you that there are better ways to train for mma!

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#397262 - 06/01/08 08:14 PM Re: Lyoto Machida uses karate in mma? [Re: medulanet]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Quote:

Karate is not a well rounded art. Quit pretending it is. It's not because of any watering down or non pure styles either.




Do you mean YOUR karate is not a well rounded art?


Quote:

You are right. A good karateka would kill people in an mma setting.




Do you feign stupidity or can you just not help it?




I forgot about your all inclusive pure okinawan deadly karate you learn and teach in Texas. Are you now an Okinawan master yourself? I know you believe mine is crap because it doesn't contain rasslin from the kata, dork.

I feign stupidity so that you can comprehend my posts.

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#397263 - 06/02/08 01:35 AM Re: Lyoto Machida uses karate in mma? [Re: BrianS]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Karate is not a well rounded art. Quit pretending it is. It's not because of any watering down or non pure styles either.




Do you mean YOUR karate is not a well rounded art?


Quote:

You are right. A good karateka would kill people in an mma setting.




Do you feign stupidity or can you just not help it?




I forgot about your all inclusive pure okinawan deadly karate you learn and teach in Texas. Are you now an Okinawan master yourself? I know you believe mine is crap because it doesn't contain rasslin from the kata, dork.

I feign stupidity so that you can comprehend my posts.






Uhh, yeah. I live in Phoenix, AZ; its listed on every single post I make. But good luck with the feigning stupidity thing.
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#397264 - 06/02/08 02:39 AM Re: Lyoto Machida uses karate in mma? [Re: medulanet]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Oh, duh.
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#397265 - 06/02/08 03:20 AM Re: Lyoto Machida uses karate in mma? [Re: medulanet]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
wHATEVA FOoL!!!
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#397266 - 06/02/08 07:10 AM Re: Lyoto Machida uses karate in mma? [Re: jude33]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:


…. lets be honest the majority of MMA striking is basic .
Even with gloves.
Jude





But Jude, I think it’s really important to know that all you really have are the basics. Any technique that differs dramatically from a “basic” will be one that won’t work very well under intense pressure.

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#397267 - 06/02/08 10:19 AM Re: Lyoto Machida uses karate in mma? [Re: JKogas]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539






But Jude, I think it’s really important to know that all you really have are the basics. Any technique that differs dramatically from a “basic” will be one that won’t work very well under intense pressure.




I train basics quite intensly John albeit it I dont use gloves unless we do light sparring. I study boxers from Dempsey upwards. I look at the drills being taught from a basic kata I have been studying. I see Tyson using his forearm as a cover/ guard before he punches with the opposite hand. I see his opponent with an arm position to negate the forearm. Both these positions are used in one of the drills I use from a basic kata except in the drill they take it further in to a form of trapping.

John. I always read your input into training because to be honest you know your stuff. Such as when you discussed duck unders from wrestling being used and the flaring of the elbows when punching being bad in MMA. I havent seen anybody in this country who uses a duck under/ throw effectively.
Unless creative has a video of some one in the UK doing it live?

This is what I am refering to for others reading this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymEdv7jNSSg

Supremor

Quote:


Just because similar techniques are employed does not mean that kata are an effective tool for mma training. There are simply more effective ways to develop mma skills, like for example, pad work, partner drills and sparring.





yes and I would hope that some technique taken from kata would be trained the same way. From my observations and it has to be observations because in this country we are a bit low on people with wrestling skills, trapping is used quite a bit in greco roman wrestling and in freestyle wrestling.

It is also in some trad karate kata. From my studies in to history of karate I seem to keep coming up with some wrestling being in trad karate. If this ever started life as
greco roman then came via the Chinese arts to Okinawan karate or before greco roman I dont know yet. Sheer speculation still.

Jude


Edited by jude33 (06/02/08 10:35 AM)

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#397268 - 06/02/08 10:41 AM Re: Lyoto Machida uses karate in mma? [Re: creative]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

Jude are you suggesting that kata would be a useful tool for boxers? How much of boxing is contained in kata?




From my observations it seems to be a fair bit. Quite a lot of simularities. Dont quote me just yet on those I am still in the proving stage.It would be a bad thing for me to post something with out definite proof as I have found out. But I suppose that is in some peoples nature in general anyway. It has been said that on Okinawan the karate ka use to have bare knuckle boxing. Be this true or not I suppose it cant be proven. Yet.

Jude


Edited by jude33 (06/02/08 10:55 AM)

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#397269 - 06/02/08 10:54 AM Re: Lyoto Machida uses karate in mma? [Re: jude33]
creative Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 401
Loc: UK
Quote:

I train basics quite intensly John albeit it I dont use gloves unless we do light sparring. I study boxers from Dempsey upwards. I look at the drills being taught from a basic kata I have been studying. I see Tyson using his forearm as a cover/ guard before he punches with the opposite hand. I see his opponent with an arm position to negate the forearm. Both these positions are used in one of the drills I use from a basic kata except in the kata they turn it in to a form of trapping.




Just to clarify a few things on your post:
You use gloves for light sparring, but not for heavy sparring? Is this correct?

Are the above drills the two examples of boxing drills from kata? Or Do you feel that all boxing is contained within kata? Do you feel you can learn the skills of boxing through kata?

I'm asking as I don't want to be putting words in your mouth!


Quote:


yes and I would hope that some technique taken from kata could be trained the same way. From my observations and it has to be observations because in this country we are a bit low on people with wrestling skills, trapping is used quite a bit in greco roman wrestling and in freestyle wrestling.

It is also in trad karate kata.

Jude




Again similar questions to above, Do you feel that you can learn the skills of greco, or freestyle from kata?

Others like Med feel free to answer these questions too!

You from UK? If you are then i'd say that in terms of wrestling, we may be behind some other nations, but if you look hard enough there are places around. I know its jacket orientated but Judo and sambo clubs are pretty common place and teach good wrestling skills and have been successfully transfered to MMA (Kayro & Fedor). Also there are native styles such as backhold and cornish wrestling (But i aint yet seen a Cornish wrestler in UFC, I'd love that).
With the popularity of MMA most MMA clubs have an ever improving wrestling skill set which is specific to fighting, so may be (MAY BE) more useful than pure wrestling forms for a martial artist. There are plenty of places to learn to wrestle to a very good standard if that is what you want.

I'll leave others to comment on the other things you brought up.


Edited by creative (06/02/08 10:56 AM)
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